*"Believe in Aliens Instead of God? "*

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according to some translations of ancient summarian tablets we were created by beings from the stars who made us in a garden? these tablets also contain snake like images that look extremely like dna strands.

Im into the more mysterious pieces of ancient history, considering we have found batterys in ancient egypt and baylon, bridges between India and Sri Lanka that are over 250 thousand(or million i forget which) years old, we have found jewlery, screws, nails and other such seemingly man made objects imbeded in coal which suggest that modern humans or beings or similar intelligence existed on earth millions of years before evolution says we came about. considering the amount of references of being from the stars aswell as accurate descriptions of not only our solar sytem but of other sytems some of which have only just been proven accurate via scientific research into the universe etc etc id say its rather silly to throw the possibility of aliens right out of the window just due to the fact that you have never seen one, of course there could be many other theorys explaining these things, perhaps we have been around this planet for millions of years, perhaps our ancestors settled on other planets and then came back to find we had socialy and scientificly etc regressed. perhaps our ancestors came from somewhere else in the universe and settled here all those years ago? perhaps we are th result of inter breeding between native peoples of this planet and extrateristals, who knows? theres probally a thousand more theorys you could come up with, the fact is that we ont know for sure, and just ave to look at the evidence that there is and learn to be more open minded.

At the moment i believe in both.
I actively choose to believe in aliens because it is not impossible and helps me to see/imagine a possible future for our species off this planet. Not that i can't without, but it adds to the story. Though as several people said on a thread in Science and Tech forum debating importance of space travel, our being alone in the universe, if that were the case, would actually add to the urgence of our getting a toe hold elsewhere.

And am currently zigzagging in and out of belief in god as cognitive treatment for my compulsive tendency to try and attribute agency and cause to everything, as have now explained on another (1 or 2 ) threads now. Because god is "an efficient first cause", which may help me deal with unascribable elements, the unknown, which is all around all the time, except in sleep.
At least it looks that way at the moment.

I think, that existence of aliens is very probable thing. From the scientific viewpoint, we are the product of gaseous hydrogen condensation; there are plenty of this element in Universe, why should we be the only intelligent form of life? But the distances may be so huge, that only spaceships-cities will help us to see live aliens.
I think, that the assumption that aliens are existing is not conflicting with the belief of God (moreover, I think that if God exists, aliens are existing too).

I believe that there are extraterrestrial life. In a universe with a radius of billions of lightyears, it's highly unlikely that we're alone.

However, no alien lifeforms will ever come in contact with the earth, since the closest lifeforms probably live hundreds of lightyears away from us. In other words it really doesn't matter whether they exist or not.

The Bible doesn't say we're alone in the universe.

I like the way you think...Have you read Graham Hancocks The sign and the seal?

Just to add... It is entirely possible that religious writings contain some obscured historical accounts of lots of things...

they didnt even know the nature of the sun

nope, i looked it up and it seems to be a crime novel, i don't mean to be rude but i think ive missed the connection there

most religious writings contain obscured or altered historical accounts, some like Hinduism even contain theory's on physics. thanks for the compliment btw i find it hard to express views on complex subjects as i always get a over rush of varying views flowing though my mind all at once and end up confusing myself and talking gibberish

Well, that "headache" turns out to have been a nasty flu or some such that I'm still recovering from, but finally feel well enough to start reading things. I'll try and get back to this thread, if it hasn't run entirely amok in the last week.

Jon

We might agree it doesn't. But people who tried to suggest that idea in public were executed by carefully considered action as an official matter of organized religion holding the bible as their supreme source of both commandment _and_ reality. In particular, I am thinking of one Catholic x-Dominican named Filippo (aka Giordano) Bruno who was eventually tortured by the Dominicans and then finally brought in 1600 into a square to be burned at the stake, his lower jaw with a metal stake driven through it towards his upper head to keep him from speaking in public on his way. He had a number of views at the time, but the one that caused him this particular special attention was his view that the stars in the sky were like our sun and that there might be planets like ours near other stars and that there were populated. That idea was considered to be in direct opposition to the Church's official position that the biblical texts place the Earth itself as the center of the universe and the only location for god's people.

In other words, you have your opinion. But I need to point out that there have been very bright people, entire groups and teams of them in fact, over many centuries' time, who have examined the bible in meticuluous detail and somehow found as a matter of long and comprehensive examination that there were definitive reasons by which they were able to fundamentally and most profoundly disagree with you. Sufficiently so, in fact, that they were willing to spend a great deal of money and time and the imposition of suffering and death upon others who disagreed.

So, as an outsider looking in, I have to say that I'm not really sure how much weight I should lend your own personal opinion on this.

Jon

Last edited by jonk on 28 Jan 2008, 2:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

I may have gone a tad off topic with the book i mentioned(although he does go into the ark of the covenant being a capacitor)...but i do comprehend what you are saying..and even agree that it is entirely possible(as well as another thought i've had about the genetic differences simply being due to different species of hominoids.)
In any event...Yes,the snake is a referance to dna strands in my opinion.
http://home.att.net/~numericana/answer/symbol.htm#caduceus

I don't want to pretend that I don't have emotional responses to the mystery and awe that surrounds our every day. When I stand out at night, looking towards a dark and starlit sky, I am literally filled inside with a sense I cannot well express and which draws me with a strength that almost brings me to tears.

What differs between me and some, I think, is that I also find a great deal that also draws me to the regularity of the laws of nature and science, as well. I do no disrespect at all to my visceral feelings over the night sky, for example, in my also appreciation and respect of science theory and result. The two co-exist in me, handily.

A personal spirituality can be sincere and I understand that much, so far as I'm able to feel some similar responses on my own. Most of us experience these feelings from time to time, though how we react to them and what we make of them can be quite different. But I feel no attraction towards collective ritualization and organization of these natural tendencies, which is entirely a different thing altogether. Organized religious response looses this personal truth and becomes a system, eventually, whose primary purposes include acts towards self-preservation (indoctrination, ritualization of behavior, the highlighting or exaggeration of ideas necessary to increasing the funding base [tithing, for example], and the expression of power (political and military) to those ends. It takes little time for the monster, that is soon the fate of nearly any religious organization, to lose all possible similarities with the personal responses we each have towards the mysteries that confront us or our sense of awe and wonder at the universe around us.

Jon

Jon..on a nice clear night..i cannot even bring my mind to anything else.

Science and emotion are both parts of the same reality.

organized religion and organized crime both have 50% of the same wording. (I only wish i could articulate it like you have.)


"I believe in God, only ... I spell it Nature." - Frank Lloyd Wright

I don't think religious belief needs to have much to do with a sense of awe and wonder at the mysteries that surround us, or emotional responses to the night sky. At least it hasn't in my experience, and it is perhaps an error to think it does for many. I think it may have more to do with frustration at NOT (often) experiencing awe and wonder at the mysteries that surround me, but only the need to sort it all out, to get it all classified ( because only then can feel safe) .
I am not converted to belief in god by my appreciation of the mystery and beauty of nature. I am converted by realising that my compulsive need to attribute agency and cause to everything, especially peoples behaviour, is ( most of the time) not useful, just exhausting.

Your analysis of organised religion is interesting. I had already noticed, in the few days that i have been believing, sporadically, but with increasing conviction, in god, that i feel tendency to want to protect my self esteem by believing that every body should do this, a desire to try and forget that the reason i am doing it, believing in god, is because the naturally selected human cognitive capacity for attributing agency and cause to everything, esp peoples behaviour,( because my theory of mind is a bit up the spout too), is dysfunctionally hyperactive in my case.

It would be easier if i could think "everyone needs this". Because i naturally don't want to look like an idiot; "believing in god.. pathetic", I find myself wanting god to become an objective reality, for everyone to see. That way too i wouldn't have to remember that i am believing in something patently "unreal"/of no interest to most people ( except when organised religion imposes it on them).

Instead I have to keep reminding myself that it is because i am "weak", in this one way, that i do it, because it helps. Because it is like a missing piece that puts the rest in proportion. And that whatever people think is not important compared to how much difference it makes to me.

But i can see how easily a group getting together, as a support group might, with the same choice of band-aid, one which works fabulously well to free them from the more negative/destructive downsides of their obsessive attributing of agency and cause, might become inclined to believe, either that they are specially favoured, OR that everybody else should do this aswell. And become powerful, or not, depending on the attitude they take.

Last edited by ouinon on 28 Jan 2008, 4:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

I had a feeling that until recently the two weren't allowed to go together.