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LKL
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13 Nov 2010, 4:13 pm

dear gods, volunteer juries would be composed of the most self-righteous segment of a community. What a frightening idea.



mcg
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13 Nov 2010, 4:23 pm

Not registering to vote is a good way to avoid jury duty. If it's already too late for that, just tell them you believe in jury nullification.



number5
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13 Nov 2010, 4:39 pm

LKL wrote:
dear gods, volunteer juries would be composed of the most self-righteous segment of a community. What a frightening idea.


Agreed, the people who actually want to serve on jury duty scare the heck out of me. A juror summons is the one and only time it's completely acceptable to be a racist. :P



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13 Nov 2010, 6:42 pm

I told a judge that I have autism and that I don't trust cops (the case was one where a cop was the star witness) and he excused me. When I was called a year later I got a letter from my psychiatrist that said that he is treating me and he didn't feel that I was suited to serve on a jury, and I got a permanent pass. One advantage to having an official dx is that they usually don't want people with mental or neurological issues on juries because if one gets on there's a good chance of the case getting thrown out on appeal, so if you officially have autism and a doc says so you usually can get excused.

There's no national service or draft requirement in the US, although a law was supposedly passed by Obama to require national service it was never implemented. Some countries don't excuse ANYBODY from the army, others if you're unstable enough you can get out. I believe that voluntary national service orgs in the US like Peace Corps and Americorps don't allow anybody with mental/neurological problems, so if mandatory national service was ever implemented it would likely be the same.



ruveyn
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13 Nov 2010, 7:19 pm

LKL wrote:
dear gods, volunteer juries would be composed of the most self-righteous segment of a community. What a frightening idea.


Do you object to volunteer fireman? Why do you assume that a volunteer juror would not be able to judge factual testimony well? Volunteer jurors could be excused if they exhibit prejudice concerning a case to be decided in court. Likewise if a volunteer juror has a connection with either the defendant or the victim he could still be excused.

ruveyn



Mainichi
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13 Nov 2010, 8:12 pm

pezar wrote:
I told a judge that I have autism and that I don't trust cops (the case was one where a cop was the star witness) and he excused me. When I was called a year later I got a letter from my psychiatrist that said that he is treating me and he didn't feel that I was suited to serve on a jury, and I got a permanent pass. One advantage to having an official dx is that they usually don't want people with mental or neurological issues on juries because if one gets on there's a good chance of the case getting thrown out on appeal, so if you officially have autism and a doc says so you usually can get excused.

There's no national service or draft requirement in the US, although a law was supposedly passed by Obama to require national service it was never implemented. Some countries don't excuse ANYBODY from the army, others if you're unstable enough you can get out. I believe that voluntary national service orgs in the US like Peace Corps and Americorps don't allow anybody with mental/neurological problems, so if mandatory national service was ever implemented it would likely be the same.


The same thing has happened to me. About 5 years ago I got I Jury Duty notice. I had to get letters from my psychiatrist, my primary doctor and the Autism center. They all recommended that I not be selected for Jury Duty because of my Autism. I have a permanent pass, which makes me less nervous to vote.



number5
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13 Nov 2010, 8:29 pm

ruveyn wrote:
LKL wrote:
dear gods, volunteer juries would be composed of the most self-righteous segment of a community. What a frightening idea.


Do you object to volunteer fireman? Why do you assume that a volunteer juror would not be able to judge factual testimony well? Volunteer jurors could be excused if they exhibit prejudice concerning a case to be decided in court. Likewise if a volunteer juror has a connection with either the defendant or the victim he could still be excused.

ruveyn


I know this wasn't directed at me, but here's my take on it:

Apples and oranges. The background and belief system of a fireman is completely irrelevant to his or her capabilities of putting out a fire. The jury, on the other hand, is supposed to be a jury of the defendant's peers. The jury is much less likely to be representative of the defendant's peers if they are the kind of people who wish to serve on a jury. This is an assumption, on my part, by I would expect that people who find themselves in the defendant's chair are less likely to be the types of people who wish to serve on a jury. I would think that more often than not, the kind of person who would volunteer to be a juror would be someone who's more likely out for some sort of justice, making them less objective to the facts of the case. Even if this is a false assumption, it's still probably quite difficult to obtain the needed amount of jurors through volunteers alone.



ruveyn
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13 Nov 2010, 9:28 pm

number5 wrote:

Apples and oranges. The background and belief system of a fireman is completely irrelevant to his or her capabilities of putting out a fire. The jury, on the other hand, is supposed to be a jury of the defendant's peers. The jury is much less likely to be representative of the defendant's peers if they are the kind of people who wish to serve on a jury. This is an assumption, on my part, by I would expect that people who find themselves in the defendant's chair are less likely to be the types of people who wish to serve on a jury. I would think that more often than not, the kind of person who would volunteer to be a juror would be someone who's more likely out for some sort of justice, making them less objective to the facts of the case. Even if this is a false assumption, it's still probably quite difficult to obtain the needed amount of jurors through volunteers alone.


We don't expect judges (as a collection) to match the community from which they were appointed. Why should we expect that of jurors? The main thing is the the juror be able to judge fact with a minimum of bias.

ruveyn



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14 Nov 2010, 12:49 am

Cyanide wrote:
I thought for jury duty you got paid....or am I wrong here? I wouldn't know, since I've never been called for it.


lucky you. i seem to have a big sticker on my forehead that says "PERMANENT JUROR!"
jurors get paid but very poorly, less than $15 per day on average. some big cities pay more. i have long thought that there should be professional jurors. pay 'em decently, and many folk would line up for it.



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14 Nov 2010, 12:52 am

AspE wrote:
Also, you do get paid for it.


on average, a big $15 per day. whoop-t'do. :roll:



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14 Nov 2010, 2:26 am

Orwell wrote:
dktekno wrote:
Conscription and Jury Duty is slavery!

So is taxation.

Income taxes are, anyway. Some other kinds of taxes are not, and are less objectionable for that reason.

I'm quite pleased that the U.S. has eliminated military conscription.

alex wrote:
i think it's pretty easy to get out of it if you really want to.

That depends on the state. In Massachusetts it's quite difficult to get out of showing up for jury duty, though it may be fairly easy to avoid being selected for any given jury.



Inuyasha
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14 Nov 2010, 3:04 pm

number5 wrote:
LKL wrote:
dear gods, volunteer juries would be composed of the most self-righteous segment of a community. What a frightening idea.


Agreed, the people who actually want to serve on jury duty scare the heck out of me. A juror summons is the one and only time it's completely acceptable to be a racist. :P


:roll:

I'm actually curious about jury duty, the idea of listening to a court case can be intriguing. However, you would want the jury pool to be random and people not getting to choose to be on it, otherwise you have all kinds of potential for biased jurors (both for the defense and for the prosecution).



number5
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14 Nov 2010, 3:35 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
number5 wrote:
LKL wrote:
dear gods, volunteer juries would be composed of the most self-righteous segment of a community. What a frightening idea.


Agreed, the people who actually want to serve on jury duty scare the heck out of me. A juror summons is the one and only time it's completely acceptable to be a racist. :P


:roll:

I'm actually curious about jury duty, the idea of listening to a court case can be intriguing. However, you would want the jury pool to be random and people not getting to choose to be on it, otherwise you have all kinds of potential for biased jurors (both for the defense and for the prosecution).


I'm sorry, but your post confuses me. Could you restate your point please?



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15 Nov 2010, 4:20 pm

A compromise of individual liberty is always the price of living within a society. The trick is to strike the right balance where the least intrusion is imposed in exchange for the maximum benefit.

The principal of trial by jury is one of the central components of the Common Law legal tradition, and has reprsented a bulwark against the unbridled power of the State for over eight centuries. To suggest that the obligation to serve on a jury is akin to slavery is, to my way of thinking, laughable. Yes, it is a compulsion, but it is a compulsion that carries with it an enormous benefit.

That being said, I think that in the United States the system has come somewhat off the rails. The proliferation of civil jury trials imposes an enormous burden on potential jurors that goes well beyond the constitutional function of the jury to stand between the Court and the State which created and funds it. The State has little direct interest in the resolution of an individual dispute between private litigants, and justice could well be served in private law matters without resort to a civil jury as a trier of fact.


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ruveyn
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15 Nov 2010, 6:12 pm

If people refused to serve on juries, then there would be no trial by jury, and agents of the government, i.e. the judges would have complete control over judging the facts. Or even worse, there would be no trials, just police or executive action.

ruveyn



LKL
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16 Nov 2010, 6:56 pm

being a citizen is a responsibility as well as a right.