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Orwell
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29 Feb 2008, 12:02 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Debatable. Many scholars believe that North American Indians lived in such a manner. All resources were communally owned, each tribal group cooperated among themselves to produce the goods they needed. Of course, much of this is speculation as we do not have written histories of their society. But it is fairly well established that Native Americans really did not seem to have the concept of private ownership in their society, or at least not in the same sense as Europe did.

Actually, I have heard contrary things to that. http://www.mises.org/story/2642 This article here claims that indians did occasionally establish property rights. They probably had less of it and less of a sense of it than other peoples owing to their more primitive societies though.

Honestly though, to go to another point, I disagree with parecon and do not view it as a freer or more participatory system than capitalism, perhaps even less of one given its greater focus on society as the unit and less on the individual.

Interesting article, and I did note that it was debated and mostly speculative anyways. We really don't know much about Native American cultural or social institutions, and in any case those principles are not readily applicable to modern society.


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monty
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29 Feb 2008, 2:39 pm

snake321 wrote:
Yeah, but you've got to go further than neo-con groups like PNAC, big business interests are what put the EU together. Now theyr trying to do the same here in the US, with the NAFTA super highway.


The United States has been a sort of EU for Americans, for hundreds of years. Our states within a nation (California, Texas, Florida) are on par with European nation-states (England, Spain, etc). The consequences of NAFTA on political or economic union are greatly exaggerated.



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29 Feb 2008, 3:48 pm

monty wrote:
The consequences of NAFTA on political or economic union are greatly exaggerated.

True, but you have to look at long-term consequences. The EU started out with Germany and France tying together their coal and steel industries, now it is gradually asserting itself more and more in political matters.


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snake321
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01 Mar 2008, 4:56 pm

monty wrote:
snake321 wrote:
Yeah, but you've got to go further than neo-con groups like PNAC, big business interests are what put the EU together. Now theyr trying to do the same here in the US, with the NAFTA super highway.


The United States has been a sort of EU for Americans, for hundreds of years. Our states within a nation (California, Texas, Florida) are on par with European nation-states (England, Spain, etc). The consequences of NAFTA on political or economic union are greatly exaggerated.


Greatly exagerated? They want to make Canada, US, and Mexico all one nation, this will collapse our entire economy. Theyr building a super highway that will destroy our sovereignty, and by doing so, will reduce us to a 3rd world nation. Not to mention restrict more of our rights.
Dude, theyr not exactly secretive about this. I know the news lies A LOT, but theyr not gonna lie about something like that. Politicians and big business tycoons are bragging about their agenda, laughing at people like you for being dumb enough to fall for their crap.
Your opinion is not your opinion, it's the opinion they gave you.



Awesomelyglorious
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01 Mar 2008, 5:56 pm

snake321 wrote:
Greatly exagerated? They want to make Canada, US, and Mexico all one nation, this will collapse our entire economy. Theyr building a super highway that will destroy our sovereignty, and by doing so, will reduce us to a 3rd world nation. Not to mention restrict more of our rights.

Yes, of course, they want to destroy our entire economy. It is all a part of their evil plans! MUA HA HA HA!! :roll: No, Monty is actually quite right, it is greatly exaggerated as all NAFTA really is, is a trade deal with Canada and Mexico, and frankly, there is not much wrong with that. Not only that, but a super highway can't really get rid of our sovereignty, and I don't even know how or why we'd suddenly become a third world country due to GREATER amounts of trade, I'd think that the 3rd world countries would be the ones who trade less.
Quote:
Dude, theyr not exactly secretive about this. I know the news lies A LOT, but theyr not gonna lie about something like that. Politicians and big business tycoons are bragging about their agenda, laughing at people like you for being dumb enough to fall for their crap.
Your opinion is not your opinion, it's the opinion they gave you.

Yes, of course, it is all a big conspiracy including Bill Gates, the Pope, the resurrected Hitler, and no less than 3 playboy bunnies. You know the great thing about conspiracy theories? They allow for a world with a lot less gray. I mean, either something is a tool by the evil powers, or it is a force fighting for freedom. There is probably not a lot to be said about the intellectual rigor of these theories, but probably something to be said about the reduction in complexity found in the world afterwards, sort of like having a piece of your brain removed, less intellectual rigor, simpler world.



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01 Mar 2008, 9:17 pm

snake321 wrote:
Greatly exagerated? They want to make Canada, US, and Mexico all one nation, this will collapse our entire economy. Theyr building a super highway that will destroy our sovereignty, and by doing so, will reduce us to a 3rd world nation. Not to mention restrict more of our rights.
Dude, theyr not exactly secretive about this. I know the news lies A LOT, but theyr not gonna lie about something like that. Politicians and big business tycoons are bragging about their agenda, laughing at people like you for being dumb enough to fall for their crap.
Your opinion is not your opinion, it's the opinion they gave you.

I don't think combining all of N. America into one country would be a good idea, but I also doubt that it would destroy our economy. We're in much more danger from the possibility of OPEC dropping the dollar than form continental unification. The EU hasn't exactly made Europe poorer.


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