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Americans have no right to vote for a President

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skafather84
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04 Apr 2008, 5:43 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
On some levels I agree him but I think hes off topic here.



i changed my mind. stay over in your country and don't come here to vote.



BesideYouInTime
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04 Apr 2008, 5:44 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Not at all. You knew where I'm from, and that no doubt influenced how you communicated with me. Your thoughts just got me really curious, because you don't seem to know much about world politics.


Neither do you, because you're under a vastly mistaken impression of what people in other nations think about Americans. You've never met a European, have you?



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04 Apr 2008, 6:10 pm

skafather84 wrote:
i changed my mind. stay over in your country
and don't come here to vote.


My country is America. Yours would be what.. Mexico?
I saw an ad on TV the other night that was promoting tourism to, as Arnold called it, "Califawnia". The ad showed beautiful beaches, sunsets, and palm trees, but not a single person of Latino descent. Why would that be I wondered, and why would California need to promote tourism anyway? Could it be that the entire state is bankrupt? Thats odd.

I applaud immigration legal or not. I believe however that immigration to America should be mixed as equally as possible between those of every origin and ethnicity. Everyone deserves freedom and democracy, but nobody should have an advantage due to their geographic location. The "Mexification" of Americas Southwest does nothing but serve the interests of Mexico. Mexico, troubled as it may be, is still a great country, yet only a single member of the world community. Again nothing against Mexicans, but they are no more entitled to freedom and democracy than people from other countries are. America is a melting pot, not a bowl of bean dip.


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BesideYouInTime
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04 Apr 2008, 6:16 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
Mexico, troubled as it may be, is still a great country, yet only a single member of the world community. Again nothing against Mexicans, but they are no more entitled to freedom and democracy than people from other countries are. America is a melting pot, not a bowl of bean dip.


Translation="I have nothing against mexicans as long as long as they live in another country and not in my neighborhood"



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04 Apr 2008, 6:34 pm

you're wrong

Instead of sharing my neighborhood with only illegal aliens from Mexico, I would prefer to share it with illegal aliens from China, Egypt, and Somalia as well.

thats what Im saying
but feel free to interpret it any way you like


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BesideYouInTime
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04 Apr 2008, 6:37 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
Instead of sharing my neighborhood with only illegal aliens from Mexico, I would prefer to share it with illegal aliens from China, Egypt, and Somalia as well.


And you care about the racial makeup of your neighborhood, why?



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04 Apr 2008, 6:37 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
It doesnt matter where either of us is from. If you think your "birth right" affords you the luxury of supporting oppressive nationalism disguised as American patriotism, you are misguided.

Why? His birthright is apparently partial ownership of the richest nation in the world and the most powerful military in the world. So, if he has that by birth, then he has the power to support oppressive nationalism disguised as American patriotism as his birthright. How is the logic misguided.

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It is time the states, and those subscribing to your particular mindset, come to grips with the fact that America is nothing more than a single spoiled member of the world community.

Why? Why not later? Why not never?

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As I see it the only help for America will be the intervention of other countries, and I hope they care enough to try.

Why can't we stand on our own strength as we normally do? I mean, there are some recession worries but really the economy isn't *that* bad. The reason why everyone thinks we are collapsing is because of the media rather than looking at the facts, as our unemployment rate is still in a healthy range and we haven't dipped into recession. The major thing to worry about is a worsening of our conditions but likely we will recover.



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04 Apr 2008, 6:41 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Why can't we stand on our own strength as we normally do? I mean, there are some recession worries but really the economy isn't *that* bad. The reason why everyone thinks we are collapsing is because of the media rather than looking at the facts, as our unemployment rate is still in a healthy range and we haven't dipped into recession. The major thing to worry about is a worsening of our conditions but likely we will recover.


The media has nothing to gain by promoting the idea that we're in a recession since it makes people less likely to buy the products being advertised on their channel.



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04 Apr 2008, 6:51 pm

BesideYouInTime wrote:
The media has nothing to gain by promoting the idea that we're in a recession since it makes people less likely to buy the products being advertised on their channel.

No, they have a lot to gain as it makes people more likely to watch their channel. Just think of it like a prisoner's dilemma thing: Perhaps if we both play it straight we gain the most, but if I play it ugly and you don't then I gain relatively and this leads to us both doing it. This is worsened by the fact that the media doesn't really know much about the economy. Frankly, part of this might also be psychology as there is a bit of a panic-mode mentality going on as wall street is taking some crap, politicians want to point fingers and make themselves look important, etc. Really though, even if there is a recession it isn't likely to be the end of the US as so many people pretend. The US has been through terrible recessions before.



Last edited by Awesomelyglorious on 04 Apr 2008, 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fred2670
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04 Apr 2008, 7:01 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
the economy isn't *that* bad. The reason why everyone thinks we are collapsing is because of the media rather than looking at the facts, as our unemployment rate is still in a healthy range and we haven't dipped into recession.


CNN just reported that the US lost 80,000 jobs in March
No way thats healthy, but Im sure you could always dispute
the number, or blame the media for sensationalizing it.


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04 Apr 2008, 7:01 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
No, they have a lot to gain as it makes people more likely to watch their channel.


They only want us to watch their channel so they can show us ads which they're paid for showing. If consumer spending drops, so do advertising budgets, and so does the revenue of the network. It's all quite simple, really, and it applies to all media.



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04 Apr 2008, 7:09 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
CNN just reported that the US lost 80,000 jobs in March
No way thats healthy, but Im sure you could always dispute
the number, or blame the media for sensationalizing it.

I didn't say that we are perfectly healthy. There is no doubt that we aren't. However, our unemployment rate in March was 5.1%, which is higher than it was before(4.8% last month, which is actually pretty good) but still 5.1% is within a relatively healthy range. I am also not arguing that we could be falling into a recession, in fact the 80k can reflect us doing so, but recessions are rarely the end of the world.
BesideYouInTime wrote:
They only want us to watch their channel so they can show us ads which they're paid for showing. If consumer spending drops, so do advertising budgets, and so does the revenue of the network. It's all quite simple, really, and it applies to all media.

Umm... yeah, I know. I think I already put down the Prisoner's Dilemma logic, not only that, but I would not deny that psychology is involved in this. In fact, some economists would argue that psychology is a lot of what is involved here rather than a deep, fundamental economic malaise. Really though, each individual news station does not exercise the greatest control over consumer spending given the number of other factors involved. Really, I would estimate that consumer spending is going to have a lot to do with what individuals think of their own financial state of affairs rather than the macroeconomy. Not only that, but I am not arguing about whether we are going to be in a recession but rather whether or not the media is overhyping it in a manner reflective of crisis mode psychology rather than economic calculation.



Fred2670
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04 Apr 2008, 7:16 pm

BesideYouInTime wrote:
And you care about the racial makeup
of your neighborhood, why?


I would like to see America truly become
a multi-cultural bastion of freedom for anyone
of any race who is committed to working hard,
paying taxes and coexisting peacefully.

I believe ideally all races should
be represented equally.


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Awesomelyglorious
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04 Apr 2008, 7:20 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
I believe ideally all races should
be represented equally.

Why? Isn't equal representation merely another form of racial discrimination?



Fred2670
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04 Apr 2008, 7:33 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Isn't equal representation merely another form of racial discrimination?


Not in America, a microcosm of what the
"planet at large" should strive to become
in terms of equality among the diverse.

We all deserve the right to choose for
ourselves what appeals to us, but not at the
expense of our fellow man or the planet


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Awesomelyglorious
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04 Apr 2008, 7:39 pm

Fred2670 wrote:
Not in America, a microcosm of what the
"planet at large" should strive to become
in terms of equality among the diverse.

America is not meant to be some perfect ideal, it is meant to be a functioning nation.
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We all deserve the right to choose for
ourselves what appeals to us, but not at the
expense of our fellow man or the planet

Ok, well, that really depends on what you mean by that. Frankly, all that means to me is that we put proper taxes on externalities and use a market economy.