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Orwell
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10 May 2008, 4:35 pm

Kalister1 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Lovely. Addresses mythconceptions of both the scientist and the creationist. :)


Remember that Joule, Bohr, Braun, Pasteur, Maxwell, Kelvin, et cetera are included in the Creationist category...



okay...and they didn't have the information we have today. so what's your point?

"I CAN FIND GUYS WHO BELIEVED IN CREATIONISM WHO WERE SCIENTISTS!! ! ignore that none of them are recent."


Dude, Aristotle, greatest philosopher ever, believed the world was made up of a 5 elements. We are so wrong. WTF is Uranium..

And he also believed that the natural state of objects is to be at rest. What was Newton thinking, proposing ideas like inertia?


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 May 2008, 4:41 pm

skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Lovely. Addresses mythconceptions of both the scientist and the creationist. :)


Remember that Joule, Bohr, Braun, Pasteur, Maxwell, Kelvin, et cetera are included in the Creationist category...



okay...and they didn't have the information we have today. so what's your point?

"I CAN FIND GUYS WHO BELIEVED IN CREATIONISM WHO WERE SCIENTISTS!! ! [siz=5]ignore that none of them are recent.[/siz]"


Werner Von Braun?
* Dr James Allan, Geneticist
* Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
* Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
* Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
* Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
* Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
* Dr Robert W. Carter, PhD Marine Biology
* Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
* Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
* Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
* Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
* Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
* Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
* Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
* Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
* Dr D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
* Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
* Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
* Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
* George T. Javor, Biochemistry
* Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
* Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
* Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
* Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
* Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
* Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
* Dr Felix Konotey-Ahulu, Physician, leading expert on sickle-cell anemia
* Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
* Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
* Dr Johan Kruger, Zoology
* Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
* Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
* Dr Ian Macreadie, Molecular Biologist and Microbiologist
* Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
* Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
* Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
* Dr Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
* Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
* Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
* Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
* Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
* Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
* Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
* Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
* Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
* Dr Alexander Williams, Botanist
* Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
* Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
* Dr Henry Zuill, Biology


http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4983

BTW, this is not "appeal to majority" so don't bother with the "project Steve" crap; this is QUALITATIVE, AND NOT QUANTITATIVE, as if you had the ability to understand the difference.



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10 May 2008, 4:50 pm

Izaak wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Also, your separation of "scientists" and "creationist" is a form of the NO TRUE SCOTSMAN fallacy.

I could easily, in words alone as you have done, separate "scientists" and "Quatermass".


"Creationism" isn't a science. It is rationalisations coupled with make believe. And seperating scientists from creationists is NOT a form of the no true scotsman fallacy. No True Scotsman fallacy deals with over defining a category to be so specific that no one can realistically fit into it. Where Scientist is a common use word for person who is "a person with advanced knowledge of one or more sciences" -TheFreeDictionary.com

So where a Creationist might be a scientist through some other means, someone with only knowledge of Creationism is NOT a scientist, because Creationism isn't a science.


Very true. Just because someone has scientific accomplishments in one field doesn't mean they're right or even remotely scientific in other fields, or that accomplished scientists cannot change to profoundly non-scientific attitudes (like Johannes Stark). Plus, they only had the evidence available at the time to work on. Scientific truth is determined by the balance of the evidence, not by who endorsed a theory before that evidence was even available.
Creationism is basically the following: 'if I can find any shred of scientific-looking evidence or arguments in favour of what I will believe regardless of any evidence, so much the better; if not, I'll appeal to revelation.'


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10 May 2008, 5:45 pm

lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


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10 May 2008, 5:51 pm

Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.

A part from being "utter CRAP", no. ;)


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iamnotaparakeet
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10 May 2008, 5:52 pm

Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.



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10 May 2008, 5:56 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.

Maybe you should, and correct the one regarding evolution and religion and whether they are mutually exclusive.


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10 May 2008, 5:57 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.

You didn't seem to be annoyed by a quarter of his posts :P


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10 May 2008, 5:58 pm

greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.

You didn't seem to be annoyed by a quarter of his posts :P


Usually he is practically praising Quatermass. "Oh yes, you're so great"



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10 May 2008, 6:01 pm

Kalister1 wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.

You didn't seem to be annoyed by a quarter of his posts :P


Usually he is practically praising Quatermass. "Oh yes, you're so great"


That was before the MEME thread.



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10 May 2008, 6:04 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Kalister1 wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.

You didn't seem to be annoyed by a quarter of his posts :P


Usually he is practically praising Quatermass. "Oh yes, you're so great"


That was before the MEME thread.


Touche



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10 May 2008, 6:14 pm

Kalister1 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Kalister1 wrote:
greenblue wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
lol... still waitin on some creationists to find a flaw in this website... about the "misconceptions"

no takers......... hmmm.


Haven't read it, just annoyed by Quatermass. That's why I posted.

You didn't seem to be annoyed by a quarter of his posts :P


Usually he is practically praising Quatermass. "Oh yes, you're so great"


That was before the MEME thread.


Touche

What is this infamous MEME thread?


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skafather84
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10 May 2008, 6:28 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quatermass wrote:
Lovely. Addresses mythconceptions of both the scientist and the creationist. :)


Remember that Joule, Bohr, Braun, Pasteur, Maxwell, Kelvin, et cetera are included in the Creationist category...



okay...and they didn't have the information we have today. so what's your point?

"I CAN FIND GUYS WHO BELIEVED IN CREATIONISM WHO WERE SCIENTISTS!! ! [siz=5]ignore that none of them are recent.[/siz]"


Werner Von Braun?
* Dr James Allan, Geneticist
* Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
* Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
* Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
* Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
* Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
* Dr Robert W. Carter, PhD Marine Biology
* Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
* Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
* Dr Nancy M. Darrall, Botany
* Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
* Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
* Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
* Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
* Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
* Dr D.B. Gower, Biochemistry
* Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
* Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
* Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
* George T. Javor, Biochemistry
* Dr Arthur Jones, Biology
* Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
* Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
* Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
* Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
* Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
* Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
* Dr Felix Konotey-Ahulu, Physician, leading expert on sickle-cell anemia
* Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
* Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
* Dr Johan Kruger, Zoology
* Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
* Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
* Dr Ian Macreadie, Molecular Biologist and Microbiologist
* Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
* Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
* Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
* Dr Georgia Purdom, Molecular Genetics
* Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
* Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
* Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
* Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
* Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
* Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
* Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
* Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
* Dr Alexander Williams, Botanist
* Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
* Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
* Dr Henry Zuill, Biology


http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4983

BTW, this is not "appeal to majority" so don't bother with the "project Steve" crap; this is QUALITATIVE, AND NOT QUANTITATIVE, as if you had the ability to understand the difference.



well what you're doing is an appeal to authority and avoiding presenting any actual contradictions to the theory of evolution and presenting any kind of evidence that supports creationism.

edit: and is including nazis kosher?



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10 May 2008, 7:42 pm

skafather84 wrote:


well what you're doing is an appeal to authority and avoiding presenting any actual contradictions to the theory of evolution and presenting any kind of evidence that supports creationism.

edit: and is including nazis kosher?


And not even a Nazi biologist but a Nazi engineer/applied physicist. As you say, that's an appeal to authority rather than to any actual evidence. Don't worry iamnotaparakeet about us mistaking this for the 'appeal to majority' argument because most modern biologists are not creationists. Somehow we're supposed to see a list containing a very, very small fraction of the biology-related PhDs in the world (and no actual evidence) and fall on our knees and swear that they've got to be right.


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10 May 2008, 7:43 pm

pbcoll wrote:
skafather84 wrote:


well what you're doing is an appeal to authority and avoiding presenting any actual contradictions to the theory of evolution and presenting any kind of evidence that supports creationism.

edit: and is including nazis kosher?


And not even a Nazi biologist but a Nazi engineer/applied physicist. As you say, that's an appeal to authority rather than to any actual evidence. Don't worry iamnotaparakeet about us mistaking this for the 'appeal to majority' argument because most modern biologists are not creationists. Somehow we're supposed to see a list containing a very, very small fraction of the biology-related PhDs in the world (and no actual evidence) and fall on our knees and swear that they've got to be right.


Here here!



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11 May 2008, 2:57 pm

surprise!

no one has opted to pick apart these misconceptions yet in order to support all this "crap evidence" against evolution


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