Palestine Israel conflict?

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oscuria
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24 May 2008, 8:15 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:

....and Zionism is a disgrace for humanity.

and so are the Arab militants which only work to fuel the Zionists.

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nara44
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24 May 2008, 8:56 pm

Sand wrote:

. While there were instances in which civilian deaths were “collateral damage” from legitimate attacks on military targets, during the vast majority of the deadly air strikes we investigated, we found no evidence of Hezbollah military presence, weaponry or any other military objective that would have justified the strike.

Israel assumed that all Lebanese civilians had observed its warnings to evacuate villages south of the Litani River, and thus that anyone who remained was a combatant. .

Your so called experts knows nothing about war,
Launching a rocket leaves no evidence,
U drive a pickup truck into someone backyard,
Pull the trigger and get the hell out of there.
u do not need sophisticated intel to know that,
just watch the BBC or Sky and see for your own eyes the way your martyrs used the locals as a human shield,
A war crime!
Your expert also neglect to mention that the local were paid or forced to store weapons and munition at their home,
Also war crime u and them so comfortably and typically neglect to mention.

so,
on the one side,
we have a country which warns and give time to the civilians to get out from an area that is being used to intentionally targeting and killing of civilians,
even at the cost of it soldiers lives,
a country that restrained itself while being attacked over and over again.
and on the other side,
we have a country that seek the best way to kill civilians,
a country that,as usual, initiate the violence in the first place.

yet u have no problem to placing all the blame on Israel.
do u really expect any sane person to take your claim to a balance and impartial view seriously?

Last edited by nara44 on 24 May 2008, 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.

nara44
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24 May 2008, 9:03 pm

LePetitPrince wrote:

....and Zionism is a disgrace for humanity.

Lebanese r best at destroying their own country and your support for Nasrallah proves u r true patriot.

Sand
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24 May 2008, 10:00 pm

We each consider ourselves a sane person and thereby lies a problem.

marshall
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24 May 2008, 11:36 pm

oscuria wrote:

marshall wrote:

I don't really have much sympathy for either side. If it wasn't for religion and nationalism a solution would quickly be reached and the whole conflict would evaporate. Why in the 21st century do we still have conflicts over who has the favor of an invisible man in the sky? It's all complete idiocy.

Sand wrote:

And maybe because a majority of people believe in this invisible man in the sky the idiocy will continue until (or if) most people start to attend to their affairs rationally. Don't hold your breathe.

Your ignorance and simplistic view of the religions does not contribute to anything except idiocy.

No. I'm just willing to call a spade a spade. Religion is what has and is preventing a compromise from happening. There is no possibility rational dialog with people who think God has entitled them to a contested piece of land.

Privately neither side is interested in compromise other than as a matter of temporary convenience. All the talk of peace and a two state solution is smoke and mirrors. Underneath the facade neither the Islamic or the Zionist ideologies believe in compromise. The extremists control the show on both sides.

oscuria
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24 May 2008, 11:48 pm

marshall wrote:

but but but...religion is used as an excuse in that region. Yasser Arafat was a secularist, a pan-arabist; a Nationalist. There is nothing Islamic in that movement.

Fatah, PLO, al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade, et al are secularists. Just like the Zionists who are secularists. It is not a religious battle that people assume it to be, it is just a dynamic that is thrown in because of the region.

Hamas of course is an "Islamic" militant group...which is also a nationalist group ironically.

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Sand
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25 May 2008, 2:21 am

And the Israeli government with special privileges for land ownership for Jews is not a nationalist group?

marshall
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25 May 2008, 2:25 am

oscuria wrote:

It’s true that not all of the militant groups are gung ho about Islamic theocracy. But just because they prefer more modern political platforms doesn’t mean religion doesn't strongly influence their politics. Even the secular militant groups believe that the Islamic culture should dominate the region.

The same thing goes for the Zionists. Though they’ve never advocated theocracy, they still believe that the Jewish culture should prevail in Israel (hence why they oppose “right of return” for the Arabs dislocated back in the 1948 war).

I’m quite certain that if there wasn’t that primitive “god is on my side, therefore my culture is entitled to dominate here” line of thinking from both sides the conflict would be resolved by now. It’s been over 60 years.

Last edited by marshall on 25 May 2008, 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

nara44
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25 May 2008, 2:27 am

Sand wrote:

We each consider ourselves a sane person and thereby lies a problem.

Not really,
because i can base my claim to sanity on facts,
While you....

Sand
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25 May 2008, 2:33 am

While I base my approach on the expertise of the investigators of Amnesty International that has made a close observation of the events and deeply investigated the results of the conflict. Since I am not in the area I have to choose my sources who are and that I can be reasonably sure to be relatively unprejudiced.

I gave you my source. If you are convinced they are confirmed Arab militants then that reflects strongly on your lack of prejudice.

oscuria
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25 May 2008, 4:29 am

marshall wrote:

Obviously religion is going to influence the people, you're living in the holy land, the soil is filled with the blood of millions of martyrs between the major religions of the area. How can it not? But the conflict is not as religious as people lead themselves to believe. The fighters might use it to embolden their men, but they are still secular/nationalist.

Israel extended its hand of peace many times. it has been rebuffed countless times. No one can argue that Israel has done no wrong, but it has tried many times to appease its neighbors. Israel has many times been willing to give up parts of its land for peace. Is that not against a command from the bible?

Sand wrote:

And the Israeli government with special privileges for land ownership for Jews is not a nationalist group?

How many nations in the regime who are secular are not also nationalistic? Turkey, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Palestine. Israel too to an extent is nationalistic, given most preferences goes to the Jews as it rightly should since it is a Jewish homeland. No other nation in the region is going to hand out land to the Jews. I don't see Saudi Arabia giving up a piece of dirt for them.

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oscuria
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25 May 2008, 4:32 am

Sand wrote:

How much of it is not exaggerated? There have been cases where the Palestinians have routinely lied about their afflictions. Israel is not going to remain idle as its land is being attacked. It will strike with punishing force. The international community sees this and begins to cry out against Israel. Israel cannot win this battle since the Palestinians are more than willing to use its citizens as shields and the buying of sympathy.

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Sand
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25 May 2008, 4:45 am

Read the relevant material at http://hrw.org/reports/2007/lebanon0907 ... c175028494 before you go shooting off your mouth full of Israeli propaganda.

oscuria
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25 May 2008, 4:50 am

Sand wrote:

Read the relevant material at http://hrw.org/reports/2007/lebanon0907 ... c175028494 before you go shooting off your mouth full of Israeli propaganda.

I never knew Palestinians were Lebanese or Hizbullah fighters.

I thought we were all under the impression that the Israel-Hizbullah battle in 06 was a strategic/militaristic failure for Israel?

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Everchanging
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25 May 2008, 5:26 am

It's a dispute between two religious traditions. Therefore, by definition both are wrong.

oscuria
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25 May 2008, 5:29 am

Everchanging wrote:

It's a dispute between two religious traditions. Therefore, by definition both are wrong.

ARGH!! !! !! !!

On a lighter note my pizza smells ready.

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