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a non-inflamitory question for any christians-

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oscuria
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28 May 2008, 5:28 am

Manfrednissley wrote:

um i am afraid you need to study the scriptures before you misquote something.
.


Err. Your comment left me confused. What quote did I misquote?


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starchild
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28 May 2008, 7:58 am

oscuria wrote:
starchild wrote:
http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html
http://www.thenazareneway.com/lords_prayer.htm
There are plenty examples that Jesus teachings have largely been removed or ignored. For one the concept of reincarnation is just one, and the concept of God as an ideal balance of both male and female.


How do you know they were actually said by Jesus and not attributed to Jesus? The Hadith attribute quotes to Allah and Muhammad yet there is no way of knowing whether he said these quotes, and many are in fact unauthentic.

Although I am not a Christian I understand why the other Gospels are not accepted: Because they do not carry a similar message. Consider the Jews falling upon a scripture from "their prophet" which said "Israel is not chosen, they have been mislead since Abraham" or "Ishmael would inherent the earth. He is greater than Isaac". These sentences if accepted would destroy their history and religion.

They wouldn't accept it as factual. They wouldn't canonize it, and they most certainly won't follow it. So I don't see why the Gnostic Gospels would be accepted.


To me it is very obvious, and the only thing that really makes sense.
How do you know how people react to things anyway, or what they find acceptable. People react differently to different things. If people can't accept it, it could be bechause they are afraid to think outside the box, set up by everything around them, rather than making up their own minds.
Religion doesn't seem to satisfy the people, or help the world much anyway does it?
Where I live, people don't go to church at all. So that tells me that theres's something not right with Christianity, but that's just me. People doesn't seem to get anything out of it.
The church have pretty much suppressed people more than liberating them, with their boxed up dogmas, take for instance the witch haunts. Now wasn't Jesus anti violence?


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Last edited by starchild on 28 May 2008, 9:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

slowmutant
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28 May 2008, 8:02 am

Starchild, you do not know any churchgoing people. Those are some pretty effin big statements you make there. You really don't speak for anyone but yourself.



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28 May 2008, 8:04 am

Maybe, but that's my opinion. To each their own. :D


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slowmutant
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28 May 2008, 8:21 am

Are you trying to start a New Age religion from some bastardized form of Christianity?



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28 May 2008, 9:14 am

lol No, I am not chistian at all, I don't do religion.
People can believe what they wan't to believe. Like I said, to each their own.


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28 May 2008, 1:49 pm

Jainaday wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
So-- am I correct in my summary that all who have posted have come to terms with this by assuming that it's a matter of mistranslation or differing times, rather than what the bible was actually intended to say?


May I have the requested clarification please?

Differing times and differing interpretations. Translations haven't made any significant impact, as those have been very reliable over the centuries. Besides, the clergy often learns to read biblical texts in the original, so translation CAN'T be an issue for them. I would say that in the past people have twisted the Bible to put women in an inferior position.


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28 May 2008, 1:55 pm

Jainaday wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Jainaday wrote:
Have you ever had any trouble accepting the inferior status of women that most common understandings of the bible imply?


Flawed premise. You've placed an answer within the question itself, negating its purpose.

And thank you for being non-inflamatory. Few grace us with that.



I'm tempted--in the most playful of ways-- to say, "learn to effing read, Ragtime. :)

(also, you're welcome.)

I didn't make a conclusive statement about the bible's actual teachings--I asked how people deal with certain common interpretations that are, indeed, out there and fairly frequent.


The phrase "the inferior status of women that most common understandings of the bible imply" is leading the witness, so to speak.
The most common understandings of the Bible (capital "B", by the way -- I'm tempted to say "Learn to read, jainaday") do not include women having an "inferior" status, as you claim.

We can continue with the discussion once you correct your premise.


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Last edited by Ragtime on 28 May 2008, 2:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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28 May 2008, 2:01 pm

starchild wrote:
Maybe, but that's my opinion. To each their own. :D


Well, yes, except when proven fact comes into play.
Truth is not a democracy. It is exclusive by its very nature.
Opinions are well and good, but they're not the end-all determiner of reality.


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28 May 2008, 2:07 pm

Ragtime wrote:
starchild wrote:
Maybe, but that's my opinion. To each their own. :D


Well, yes, except when proven fact comes into play.
Truth is not a democracy. It is exclusive by its very nature.
Opinions are well and good, but they're not the end-all determiner of reality.

This is a very odd comment to come from a YEC.


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28 May 2008, 2:29 pm

Orwell wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
starchild wrote:
Maybe, but that's my opinion. To each their own. :D


Well, yes, except when proven fact comes into play.
Truth is not a democracy. It is exclusive by its very nature.
Opinions are well and good, but they're not the end-all determiner of reality.

This is a very odd comment to come from a YEC.


His arrogance is astounding and pathetic.


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28 May 2008, 2:34 pm

What's a YEC?



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28 May 2008, 2:44 pm

slowmutant wrote:
What's a YEC?

Young-Earth Creationist. Someone who believe the Earth came is 6000 years old and that evolution is an atheistic conspiracy to destroy Christianity. One interesting estimate places the date of creation at October 23 4004 BC at 9:00 AM.


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oscuria
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28 May 2008, 4:35 pm

starchild wrote:
To me it is very obvious, and the only thing that really makes sense.
How do you know how people react to things anyway, or what they find acceptable. People react differently to different things. If people can't accept it, it could be bechause they are afraid to think outside the box, set up by everything around them, rather than making up their own minds.
Religion doesn't seem to satisfy the people, or help the world much anyway does it?
Where I live, people don't go to church at all. So that tells me that theres's something not right with Christianity, but that's just me. People doesn't seem to get anything out of it.
The church have pretty much suppressed people more than liberating them, with their boxed up dogmas, take for instance the witch haunts. Now wasn't Jesus anti violence?


There is no reason to accept the gnostic gospels as original because they do not carry the same message. You're just trying to find an excuse to enter an "anti-christian dogma" stance. Why would anyone accept a gospel which doesn't speak of the resurrection when the earlier ones agree to it, albeit with difference endings? You seem like the Muslims whom are bent on forcing the Gospel of Barnabas on the Christians by saying "See? Your Christ didn't return from the dead!" even though the gospel is clearly unauthentic. The mystic influences is blatant on the gnostic gospels, while it is not so obvious in the accepted gospels. The Mandaeans accept John the Baptist before Jesus (whom to them was a liar and deceiver). What gospel did they fall upon?

You are also forgetting that in Gnostic Bibles Elohim is considered Yaltabaoth, that is the demierge. Why would Jesus' followers consider Christ to be the son of the Demiurge?



Jesus didn't seem so anti-violent when he came upon the people defiling the Temple.


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28 May 2008, 5:43 pm

Orwell wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
What's a YEC?

Young-Earth Creationist. Someone who believe the Earth came is 6000 years old and that evolution is an atheistic conspiracy to destroy Christianity. One interesting estimate places the date of creation at October 23 4004 BC at 9:00 AM.


But I'm not a YEC. :?



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28 May 2008, 7:57 pm

Speckles wrote:
I'm United Church of Canada, and it takes pretty much the same approach as Orwell's. Our pastor even like to sermonize about where the repeated translations have taken the orginal writings way out of context. Apparently if you read Creation in the orginal Hebrew, half the time god is refered to as feminine :D


it is impossible God is a man or woman
it would be a both and neither thing-not human but, we could never conceive what he/she would look like-so it took a form we could wrap our heads around-people got confused-the bible re-written-shit taken out
I mean originally there was a woman who had a book in the bible
Mary (the prostitute there-many think was married to Jesus)