Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY == Ultimate Evil

Page 3 of 5 [ 77 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

03 Aug 2008, 10:36 pm

slowmutant wrote:
z0rp wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
The Devil's greatest trick was convincing the world he did not exist.

Are you really this pathetically stupid?


Yes.

Well, at least you admit it ... Welcome to the club.



ToadOfSteel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,157
Location: New Jersey

03 Aug 2008, 11:12 pm

I'd like to thank everybody who participated in this thread (including myself). Thanks to you guys, I've lost more brain cells in 2 minutes than I did in the 2 hours of watching Zoolander...



The_Cucumber
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 May 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 514

04 Aug 2008, 5:37 am

I don't f eel absolute certainty is the root of all evil. We don't know if any of the members of the inquisition had their own private doubts, and the same goes for Nazis (Hitler himself didn't have anything personal against the Jews, he was consciously scapegoating them the entire time).

There is no one source for 100% of the evil in the world. There are things that come close (such as the desire for power) but nothing can account for everything. Human behavior is simply too complex.


_________________
The improbable goal: Fear nothing, hate nothing, and let nothing anger you.


qaliqo
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 156
Location: SW Ohio

05 Aug 2008, 12:33 am

slowmutant wrote:
Would you sooner deny God or deny the Devil?


Denying God would be lying, as would confirming a Devil, other than the imperfection of the human mind. The modern day Devil image has more to do with Dante than any religious text, and religious texts are unreliable anyway. In what way would anything in the universe -- except for a few dozen Bible passages and untold volumes of fiction -- point to a supernatural malice? There are strong, although not conclusive, objective arguments in favor of God, but there are none suggesting a Devil. Demon is just a greek word for mental affliction, positive or negative. "Temptation" as described in the Bible is something one has to experience first hand -- it is definitely a product of the human mind and not an outside force. Jesus triumphed because God is no deceiver, so perhaps a read of Descartes' Meditations? It couldn't hurt.

Quote:
Which position makes less sense?


The one that there is a Devil. Sin was born with the knowledge of good and evil, not some apocryphal pantheonism. Drop the dogma and double the study, there is a great deal to learn, for those with a willing heart.

Quote:
If there was no Keyzer Soze, you would not have to deny his existence.


Quoting Boudelaire, and not the movie, then? Verbal Kint was a con man. God doesn't lie, and wouldn't create a powerful liar to deceive us. People do lie, and would create one to gain power over others. Anyone who creates fear is suspect.


_________________
q/p


twoshots
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,731
Location: Boötes void

05 Aug 2008, 12:36 am

Quote:
The modern day Devil image has more to do with Dante than any religious text

Odd. Dante's devil had none of the ditheistic power of the modern popular devil. He just kinda sat there. Frozen. Chewing on Judas. Not the kind of Satan I'd expect to find in Georgia...


_________________
* here for the nachos.


Haliphron
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Age: 43
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,980

05 Aug 2008, 12:44 am

Perhaps and answer to Theodicy is that God and Satan are Equal(in strength)and Opposite Spiritual Forces. You cannot have one without the other as every Force in the Cosmos has an opposing force as required by Supersymmetry :D .
Remeber Ahuramazda and Ahriman? The persian names for Good n' Evil.



skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

05 Aug 2008, 1:30 am

twoshots wrote:
Chewing on Judas.



that's no way to treat your deus ex machina.



Dogbrain
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2008
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 290

05 Aug 2008, 9:30 am

OrderAndChaos30 wrote:
If HISTORY shows anything it is that the greatest source of EVIL and ATROCITY is indulging in ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY. The Nazis where ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of their rightness in the HOLOCAUST and the Catholics ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN of their rightness in the INQUISITION and CRUSADES. In face of the facts there appears to be NO ORGANIZATION that preaches LOVE over FEAR and TERROR. So much for those who claim to follow the great Example of LOVE, HUMILITY and FORGIVENESS - Jesus Christ!


"You ask, will the heterodox be saved... Why do you worry about them? They have a Saviour Who desires the salvation of every human being. He will take care of them. You and I should not be burdened with such a concern. Study yourself and your own sins." --Saint Theophan the Recluse.

* No one has seen or can see God (John 1:18).
* He lives in unapproachable light (1 Tim. 6:16).
* His ways are unsearchable and unfathomable (Job 11:7-8; Romans 11:33-36).

"God is infinite and incomprehensible and all that is comprehensible about Him is His infinity and incomprehensibility" (On the Orthodox Faith, Saint John of Damascus).

"For we explain not what God is but candidly confess that we have not exact knowledge concerning Him. For in what concerns God to confess our ignorance is the best knowledge." (St. Cyril of Jerusalem)

All of these are important theological statements within my own Church.



slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

05 Aug 2008, 9:56 am

twoshots wrote:
Quote:
The modern day Devil image has more to do with Dante than any religious text

Odd. Dante's devil had none of the ditheistic power of the modern popular devil. He just kinda sat there. Frozen. Chewing on Judas. Not the kind of Satan I'd expect to find in Georgia...


Yeah, Dante's devil was Hell's prisoner and not its ruler. Odd.



Dogbrain
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2008
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 290

05 Aug 2008, 10:21 am

slowmutant wrote:
twoshots wrote:
Quote:
The modern day Devil image has more to do with Dante than any religious text

Odd. Dante's devil had none of the ditheistic power of the modern popular devil. He just kinda sat there. Frozen. Chewing on Judas. Not the kind of Satan I'd expect to find in Georgia...


Yeah, Dante's devil was Hell's prisoner and not its ruler. Odd.


Not at all "odd". It is a far closer portrayal of old traditions than the Miltonic view.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 May 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,939
Location:      

05 Aug 2008, 10:28 am

Dogbrain wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
twoshots wrote:
Quote:
The modern day Devil image has more to do with Dante than any religious text

Odd. Dante's devil had none of the ditheistic power of the modern popular devil. He just kinda sat there. Frozen. Chewing on Judas. Not the kind of Satan I'd expect to find in Georgia...

Yeah, Dante's devil was Hell's prisoner and not its ruler. Odd.

Not at all "odd". It is a far closer portrayal of old traditions than the Miltonic view.

But in Earthly prisons, it is sometimes not the warden who really runs things, but the biggest, baddest, most evil of the inmates.

Imagine a maximum-security prison run by Charles Manson on steroids ... eww ... on second thought, don't.



slowmutant
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 13 Feb 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,430
Location: Ontario, Canada

05 Aug 2008, 10:53 am

Haliphron wrote:
Perhaps and answer to Theodicy is that God and Satan are Equal(in strength)and Opposite Spiritual Forces. You cannot have one without the other as every Force in the Cosmos has an opposing force as required by Supersymmetry :D .
Remeber Ahuramazda and Ahriman? The persian names for Good n' Evil.


This is what I've been trying to get across along along. Oh well, off to convert more heathens.



Chaotica
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 714
Location: Hyperborea, buried under the ice and snow

05 Aug 2008, 2:48 pm

slowmutant wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
Perhaps and answer to Theodicy is that God and Satan are Equal(in strength)and Opposite Spiritual Forces. You cannot have one without the other as every Force in the Cosmos has an opposing force as required by Supersymmetry :D .
Remeber Ahuramazda and Ahriman? The persian names for Good n' Evil.


This is what I've been trying to get across along along. Oh well, off to convert more heathens.


I am a Heathen. Convert - to what???



Chaotica
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 714
Location: Hyperborea, buried under the ice and snow

05 Aug 2008, 2:51 pm

By the way, there can be nothing absolute, neither certainty nor uncertainty, otherwise it is called stupidity.

And "God and Satan are Equal (in strength) and Opposite Spiritual Forces. You cannot have one without the other as every Force in the Cosmos has an opposing force as required by Supersymmetry" are words similar to what I think.



Dogbrain
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2008
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 290

05 Aug 2008, 3:00 pm

Chaotica wrote:
By the way, there can be nothing absolute, neither certainty nor uncertainty, otherwise it is called stupidity.

And "God and Satan are Equal (in strength) and Opposite Spiritual Forces. You cannot have one without the other as every Force in the Cosmos has an opposing force as required by Supersymmetry" are words similar to what I think.


Funny, but you are so absolute in your certainty of that. What does it say of you?



Chaotica
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jun 2008
Age: 42
Gender: Female
Posts: 714
Location: Hyperborea, buried under the ice and snow

05 Aug 2008, 3:17 pm

You're not attentive! Read again: " are words similar to what I think", but not EXACTLY what I think :wink: