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slowmutant
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15 Aug 2008, 12:24 pm

skafather84 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
if people had the ability to reason, religion wouldn't exist by this point.


Bigot!


santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy don't exist either. guess i'm a bigot there too, eh?


To a six-year-old you'd be a real killjoy. :lol:



skafather84
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15 Aug 2008, 12:53 pm

slowmutant wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
if people had the ability to reason, religion wouldn't exist by this point.


Bigot!


santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy don't exist either. guess i'm a bigot there too, eh?


To a six-year-old you'd be a real killjoy. :lol:


whoever said a six year old had a refined ability to reason?



slowmutant
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15 Aug 2008, 12:59 pm

Sentient beings in general have the ability to reason or process sensory information. I think the ability to reason might have a direct relationship with the level of sentience. Human beings "reason" or think at different levels and in different ways. Reasoning ability and overall cranial capacity are very close.



antonblock
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25 Jun 2012, 4:30 pm

Kant assumes that every people was more or less able to reason. However, he also knew that some are more able to do it. Its one of his claims... that everyone should use more his reason.

He probably didn't exclude autistic people from this... because Kant was himself autistic.....

anton



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25 Jun 2012, 4:44 pm

Not really. Some can.

People want cookies from their peer group not truth. So, people lie to themselves and intentionally avoid thinking about an issue if it threatens the cookie supply chain. Social animals at work. Tradition, submission and repetition. If there is any room left over they'll think of clever things to say to get laid.



DC
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25 Jun 2012, 7:32 pm

Barracuda wrote:
I haven't read any Kant, but I had to read about him for an apologetics class (Kant and Schliemacher almost single handedly completely screwed up the christian faith)

The general impression I got was that he was full of crap. You don't have to be a really smart person to figure this out.



Thank you Barracuda for providing great proof that a human being can be utterly devoid of the ability to reason. :wink:



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26 Jun 2012, 4:57 am

Kant was kind of an as*hole.

I have very little respect for anyone who assigns such value to reason.

Most philosophers are nut jobs. I wouldn't take them too seriously.



Oodain
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26 Jun 2012, 8:18 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Kant was kind of an as*hole.

I have very little respect for anyone who assigns such value to reason.

Most philosophers are nut jobs. I wouldn't take them too seriously.


??

really?


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Robdemanc
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26 Jun 2012, 8:41 am

I think it depends on what we are reasoning about. If we count everything that can be reasoned about then I don't think its uncommon.

Also consider the fact that an animal can "reason" whether to approach a human or not. Dogs seem to be able to detect if their owner wants to be left alone. This could be called "reasoning" on the dogs part.



DC
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26 Jun 2012, 10:06 am

Robdemanc wrote:
I think it depends on what we are reasoning about. If we count everything that can be reasoned about then I don't think its uncommon.

Also consider the fact that an animal can "reason" whether to approach a human or not. Dogs seem to be able to detect if their owner wants to be left alone. This could be called "reasoning" on the dogs part.


But I can't do that.

Does that mean I'm less capable of reason than a dog?

Perhaps I should schedule more time for licking my own balls. :(



Robdemanc
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26 Jun 2012, 12:50 pm

DC wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
I think it depends on what we are reasoning about. If we count everything that can be reasoned about then I don't think its uncommon.

Also consider the fact that an animal can "reason" whether to approach a human or not. Dogs seem to be able to detect if their owner wants to be left alone. This could be called "reasoning" on the dogs part.


But I can't do that.

Does that mean I'm less capable of reason than a dog?

Perhaps I should schedule more time for licking my own balls. :(


No because you can reason about things that a dog can't.



androbot2084
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26 Jun 2012, 1:00 pm

if your idea is so good why isn't everyone else doing it?



JWC
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26 Jun 2012, 1:03 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
if your idea is so good why isn't everyone else doing it?


Is this a quote from a conversation between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs?



visagrunt
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26 Jun 2012, 5:28 pm

I think we are all be far too restrictive in our definition of "reason," and displaying not a small amount of arrogance in so doing.

Consider these statements:

"I am hungry, therefore I will eat."
"It is raining, therefore I will find shelter."

These are expressions of reason, and they are displayed in almost every human being, other than those who have the most profound limitations.

Reason needs nothing more than observing circumstances in one's environment, and then determining a course of action as a response to those circumstances.

Now we might all believe that, "Even though I am hungry, I will not steal this person's loaf of bread," is a more rational thought than the first statement above--but not so. For it relies on a new piece of environmental information--the property interest of another person. And then, "Neither I nor my family have eaten for three days, so I will steal this loaf of bread anyway," brings in yet another circumstance.

To suggest that no reasonable person could subscribe to religion is to substitute one's own perceptions and beliefs for another's. And though many of us here are mind-blind, that is no excuse for chauvinism.

Every human being is capable of rational thought. And although some incorporate a wider scope of information in their thought, that does not make the thoughts of others any less rational simply because the scope of their information is narrower.


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DC
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26 Jun 2012, 5:35 pm

Robdemanc wrote:
DC wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
I think it depends on what we are reasoning about. If we count everything that can be reasoned about then I don't think its uncommon.

Also consider the fact that an animal can "reason" whether to approach a human or not. Dogs seem to be able to detect if their owner wants to be left alone. This could be called "reasoning" on the dogs part.


But I can't do that.

Does that mean I'm less capable of reason than a dog?

Perhaps I should schedule more time for licking my own balls. :(


No because you can reason about things that a dog can't.


And the dog can instinctively reason about things that I can't figure out after weeks of trying to understand what happened in one particular social interaction or another.

Chimpanzees outperform undergraduates on task like short term number sequence recall, are they capable of reason?

Bacteria and Fungi can also consistently find the most resource efficient way to spread effectively solving fiendishly difficult mathematical puzzles that we need a supercomputer to figure out.

What separates 'reason' from behaviour or intelligence or memory?



slave
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26 Jun 2012, 8:00 pm

antonblock wrote:
Kant assumes that every people was more or less able to reason. However, he also knew that some are more able to do it. Its one of his claims... that everyone should use more his reason.

He probably didn't exclude autistic people from this... because Kant was himself autistic.....

anton


Do you have any docs that corroborate Kant having autism?

or are you speculating? :D :D i'm very curious!