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slowmutant
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18 Aug 2008, 8:15 am

Generally, yes. It sounds like you operate on something similar to the Golden Rule.

patternist
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18 Aug 2008, 8:21 am

Quote:

Generally, yes. It sounds like you operate on something similar to the Golden Rule.

Interesting about "The Golden Rule"
It seems like it could solve a lot of problems with not knowing how to act toward people, treat people, act in social situations, etc. It's very simple. Very balanced, even logical.

Yet so many people reject it.
I believe there was even a post in Random about "stupid things your mother used to tell you". "The Golden Rule" was the first example....

slowmutant
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18 Aug 2008, 8:30 am

The Golden Rule is not the least bit stupid. The beauty of it is that you don't need to be a religious person to utilize it in your daily life. In a secular context, it's known as Reciprocity.

Sand
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18 Aug 2008, 8:36 am

The golden rule assumes everybody has the same standards, the same likes and dislikes. Simply not true.

patternist
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18 Aug 2008, 8:40 am

The Golden Rule doesn't assume anything. It provides a blueprint for not being an a**hole.

Last edited by patternist on 18 Aug 2008, 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

slowmutant
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18 Aug 2008, 8:45 am

The Golden Rule rule assumes that everybody wants happiness and nobody wants suffering. How is that not true, Sand?

greenblue
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18 Aug 2008, 1:51 pm

patternist wrote:

Quote:

Generally, yes. It sounds like you operate on something similar to the Golden Rule.

Who said the Golden Rule was very balanced and the answer to everything? It's not, it is a fundamental value though, and I don't think that to be stupid, however, I ask a question, an honest question, does empathy play a role on understanding it?

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byrlawson
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18 Aug 2008, 2:20 pm

greenblue wrote:

I think this is a valid question. I assume empathy makes interaction and communication a lot easier. However, in my understanding it is not essential (while helpful) to know (or to feel) anything about others but to grant other people the same rights, comfort and priviledges you are requiring for yourself. I am sure this is positively acknowledged by others and I do not have any contrary experiences. It does not protect you from getting hurt, disappointed or fooled, however.

patternist
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18 Aug 2008, 2:24 pm

Quote:

Who said the Golden Rule was very balanced and the answer to everything

a) how is it not a balanced concept?
b) I certainly didn't say it was the answer to everything. But it does guide, doesn't it? Even without empathy. Unless you define a lack of empathy as a complete disregard for other peoples' feelings...
For example:
Q. Jenny's mother just died. Should I send a sympathy card?
A. Golden Rule says: Yes I should, I would want people to show me they cared if the same thing happened to me.
See? No preternatural understanding of other humans required.
Will this have everyone holding hands and sharing cokes around the campfire? Of course not. There will be personal and cultural misunderstandings, always. But at the end of the day, it solves the problem of wondering whether you made the right decision.

Dogbrain
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18 Aug 2008, 2:55 pm

patternist wrote:

Quote:

Who said the Golden Rule was very balanced and the answer to everything

Golden Rule says: No, not for a long time, maybe years. I would want people to let me be and seek a quiet place where I can rebalance if the same thing happened to me.

Where is your Golden Rule, now?

I have had relatives die, and I couldn't stand the shows of sympathy. I just wanted to be left alone to find a new balance in my life.

patternist
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18 Aug 2008, 3:01 pm

Quote:

Golden Rule says: No, not for a long time, maybe years. I would want people to let me be and seek a quiet place where I can rebalance if the same thing happened to me.

Fair enough. Then give others the same treatment. At least you have a valid justification for your decision.

ThatRedHairedGrrl
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18 Aug 2008, 3:22 pm

Quote:

Yes, it does. You have to be able to work out exactly what other people would or would not want you to do to them. And, you have to understand that that's not necessarily what you would want in those same circumstances.

It might be better phrased as 'Consider other people's needs and desires as you would want them to consider yours'. And take them seriously, rather than assuming you know what's best for them.

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Dogbrain
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18 Aug 2008, 4:58 pm

patternist wrote:

Quote:

Golden Rule says: No, not for a long time, maybe years. I would want people to let me be and seek a quiet place where I can rebalance if the same thing happened to me.

Fair enough. Then give others the same treatment. At least you have a valid justification for your decision.

But it invalidates your claim that the rule in question is such a great guide by which to guess socially appropriate behavior.

slowmutant
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18 Aug 2008, 5:10 pm

Dogbrain wrote:

patternist wrote:

Quote:

Golden Rule says: No, not for a long time, maybe years. I would want people to let me be and seek a quiet place where I can rebalance if the same thing happened to me.

Fair enough. Then give others the same treatment. At least you have a valid justification for your decision.

But it invalidates your claim that the rule in question is such a great guide by which to guess socially appropriate behavior.

If you try hard enough, you can find fault in anything. If you try hard enough, you can overcomplicate the most uncomplicated thing. :roll:

Dogbrain
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18 Aug 2008, 5:35 pm

slowmutant wrote:

Dogbrain wrote:

patternist wrote:

Quote:

Golden Rule says: No, not for a long time, maybe years. I would want people to let me be and seek a quiet place where I can rebalance if the same thing happened to me.

Fair enough. Then give others the same treatment. At least you have a valid justification for your decision.

But it invalidates your claim that the rule in question is such a great guide by which to guess socially appropriate behavior.

If you try hard enough, you can find fault in anything. If you try hard enough, you can overcomplicate the most uncomplicated thing.

A specific claim was made about the heuristic power of the golden rule to determine socially appropriate behavior. I produced an example wherein it would produce socially INAPPROPRIATE behavior. The fault and flaw lies in the original claim, not in showing that said claim is a pile of fetid dingo's kidneys.

slowmutant
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18 Aug 2008, 5:51 pm

There you go. From something very simple you've made something very complex. And in doing so, missed the point entirely.

Do for me and I'll do for you. Simplicity itself, no charts, graphs, or formulas.

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