Bible Study: Ecclesiastes

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Is it copyrighted?

I'm curious about your reasons why. I'm only vaguely familiar with the JEDP idea, and my knowledge is insufficient for me to form an opinion about it.

Verse one identifies the author of Ecclesiastes as "the son of David, king in Jerusalem." I assume this could only refer to Solomon, and that by "the traditional interpretation" you mean that Solomon actually was the author.

What's striking to me is the difference between Ecclesiastes and the Book of Proverbs, also attributed to Solomon. It doesn't seem to me that they were written by the same author.

As Jewish religious and philosophical writing goes, the Book of Proverbs is way below average, practically an embarrassment, while Ecclesiastes is one of finest pieces of literature I've run across from any tradition in the world.

Ecclesiastes is clear, flowing, balanced, and to the point. Proverbs is muddy and chaotic.

Ecclesiastes is deep, Proverbs is shallow.

Another striking point is the utter universality of Ecclesiastes. Somebody who had never heard of the western religious traditions could completely understand Ecclesiastes, while most of Proverbs would be meaningless to them.

It seems to me that there were two different minds involved here, one much better than the other.

All I know is that it is a translation made by Jehova's Witnesses which seems to be controversial among christians, and that makes it interesting

Yes, it's copyrighted.

This is a poetic representation of how the writer feels.. when he looks at the world.. in his present time.. which is not so different than it is today.

And then.. alternatively.. imagines how the world could be.. with God's system in place.. at some future time.

Hence we see the two times.. or ages.. being compared against each other.. in the poem.,

One system is being up-rooted.. torn down.. while the new system is being planted.. (or established).. to take its place..

Basically both verses are concerned with the judgments against our worldly system.. the leaders.. judges.. and religious authorities.. the very ones who murdered Jesus.. after he trashed the temple.

“a time to break down, and a time to build up”

“A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones”

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‘However, Jesus said to him: "Do you behold these great buildings? By no means will a stone be left here upon a stone and not be thrown down."’

Mark 13:2

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Two different times being compared..

“To every thing there is a season”

( A period of time.. or an epoch)


A NEW EPOCH - A new world order

a time to plant.. a time to heal.. a time to laugh a time to dance.. a time to keep.. a time to love.. a time of peace… etc etc.

Then.. on the other hand..

Talking about our existing time.. (or system)..

a time to up-root what has been planted (out-dated ideas.. traditions).. a time to cast out stones.. a time of hate.. a time of war.. etc.. etc..

The central theme that runs throughout the bible is that there are two systems.. God's system.. symbolically represented by the Tree of Life (a tree symbolizes a system)..

And man's system.. symbolized by the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

The two systems are in opposition towards one another..

The agenda is to cut the tree down..

The scriptures were written to execute this.

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"'And because the king beheld a watcher, even a holy one, coming down from the heavens, who was also saying: "CHOP THE TREE DOWN, AND RUIN IT.”


Then he went on to tell this illustration: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came looking for fruit on it, but found none. Then he said to the vinedresser, 'Here it is three years that I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree, but have found none. Cut it down! Why really should it keep the ground useless?'

In reply he said to him, 'Master, let it alone also this year, until I dig around it and put on manure; and if then it produces fruit in the future, well and good; but if not, you shall cut it down.'"

"Already the axe is lying at the root of the trees; every tree, then, that does not produce fine fruit is to be cut down and thrown into the fire."

Daniel 4:23 + Matthew 13:6

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That's the translation I'm using..

The JW's used to call on me..

And I used to invite them in to discuss..

To give them their dues.. their version of the bible is the best translation i have ever come across.

Nevertheless.. I'm always searching for a better one.

If any one has some good tips.

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Last edited by Accelerator on 14 Sep 2008, 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Then I wouldn't have it for two reasons then:

1) I don't trust the Jehovah's Witnesses. The Jewish Publication Society
with Isaiah 53 I'll trust more than with them!

2) I'm not going to have copyrighted material that I know about.

so are we done with chapter one yet?

is it time for tea and biscuits?

I love Ecclesiastes! Ecclesiastes 12: 13-14 is one of my favorite passages.

Bible-scholars of WrongPlanet

Can you recommend me a superior translation of the Good Book? Right now I'm reading from the NIV. Who here likes the King James?

Ooh! Ooh! Can you PM that passage to me?

WHOA! A 'correct' view? I had been interested in following the conversation, but responses like that are discouraging to say the least... Wasn't it 'judge not, lest ye be judged'? This is a precept I agree with, and feel it gets too little scope now, only applied to people instead of concepts. We are rash in our opinions to make them the beliefs of many. My apologies in advance, SM, but even while admitting your knowledge of Christianity is likely great than my own - I do not understand where you think you are justified in making such a determination of what is, or isn't, a "correct" view for others.


M.

do not understand where you think you are justified in making such a determination of what is, or isn't, a "correct" view for others.[quote]

Correct as far as Christian living is concerned, excuse me. . Hopelessness and despair are surely not the intended effects of reading any part of the Bible.

Appreciate the distinction; my own semantic need appends it to "correct as far as my Christian experience is concerned." Many sects with aisles of incompatibility lie under that dogmatic umbrella; the clarification for me exists to prevent assumptions. I have a question, but it is a little off-topic: there are books in the historic liturgical canon that did deal with despair, from my understanding. Why are these texts no longer part of the tradition?


M.

Everything "under the sun" is vanity and striving after wind. Nothing "under the sun" is worthwhile. None of the things deemed great and magnificent by mortal societies is wortwhile. Only that which is not "under the sun"--only that which is (poetically) "over the sun" is ultimately worthwhile. Thus, all of the things of man are dust and vanity. Only God is above this, only the things of God are worth attaining.

I disagree.