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Abortion is wrong, plain and simple.

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Haliphron
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10 Apr 2009, 12:42 am

boots_dy1 wrote:
Anyone who has an abortion is selfish.


So what? :mrgreen:



Last edited by Haliphron on 10 Apr 2009, 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

greenblue
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10 Apr 2009, 1:21 am

Haliphron wrote:
boots_dy1 wrote:
Anyone who has an abortion is selfish.


So what? :mrgreen:

hmmm, the desire to have children have seem to be a selfish thing to me, especially from observing those who are sterile.


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Aspie_Chav
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10 Apr 2009, 1:24 am

boots_dy1 wrote:
Anyone who has an abortion is selfish.


I am glad I never contributed to an abortion directly or indirectly


There probably something more to Christian Pro-Life then the life of an unborn child. The promotion of abortion probably has negative effects on our society.



Sand
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10 Apr 2009, 3:43 am

EgaoNoGenki wrote:
This is my take on the Chinese forced-abortion policy: It's as brutal as the following:

A dictatorial regime puts out a population-control edict by giving every citizen between age 5 and retirement, an IQ test. Anyone who scores below 100 gets sent away to (what is euphemistically referred to as) "academic enrichment camps." They're given some training for a month and given a different, more thorough intelligence test. Anyone who scored in the bottom half gets sent away to be euthanized.

Forcibly aborting would be on the same cruel caliber as exterminating the mentally challenged.


Comparing the mentally challenged to a fetus is equivalent to comparing somebody with an under average IQ to a paramecium. I doubt there is much argument over who would do worse on an IQ test.



ruveyn
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10 Apr 2009, 5:37 am

EgaoNoGenki wrote:
This is my take on the Chinese forced-abortion policy: It's as brutal as the following:

A dictatorial regime puts out a population-control edict by giving every citizen between age 5 and retirement, an IQ test. Anyone who scores below 100 gets sent away to (what is euphemistically referred to as) "academic enrichment camps." They're given some training for a month and given a different, more thorough intelligence test. Anyone who scored in the bottom half gets sent away to be euthanized.

Forcibly aborting would be on the same cruel caliber as exterminating the mentally challenged.


With one large difference. A mental ret*d is a person. A fetus is not. Even so, I oppose forced abortion since it is attacking the fetus which is the property of the woman carrying it. It is up to the woman alone whether she wishes the pregnancy to go to term (or natural miscarriage). Governments (or even private agents) should not violate the property of others, where property that which is created by the possessors own efforts or labor.

A good rule to follow:

What is mine is mine,
what is yours is yours,
what is hers is hers.

ruveyn



Sand
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10 Apr 2009, 5:45 am

ruveyn wrote:
EgaoNoGenki wrote:
This is my take on the Chinese forced-abortion policy: It's as brutal as the following:

A dictatorial regime puts out a population-control edict by giving every citizen between age 5 and retirement, an IQ test. Anyone who scores below 100 gets sent away to (what is euphemistically referred to as) "academic enrichment camps." They're given some training for a month and given a different, more thorough intelligence test. Anyone who scored in the bottom half gets sent away to be euthanized.

Forcibly aborting would be on the same cruel caliber as exterminating the mentally challenged.


With one large difference. A mental ret*d is a person. A fetus is not. Even so, I oppose forced abortion since it is attacking the fetus which is the property of the woman carrying it. It is up to the woman alone whether she wishes the pregnancy to go to term (or natural miscarriage). Governments (or even private agents) should not violate the property of others, where property that which is created by the possessors own efforts or labor.

A good rule to follow:

What is mine is mine,
what is yours is yours,
what is hers is hers.

ruveyn



Governments "violate" property all the time since property is a social convention and government is an organization created to regulate social conventions it is merely doing what it is designed to do. It puts people in the armed forces, taxes property regulates the use of property, etc. That's its function. If a nation will severely suffer from more people than it can handle or is good for the environment it will merely do what it is supposed to do.



ruveyn
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10 Apr 2009, 9:29 am

Sand wrote:


Governments "violate" property all the time since property is a social convention and government is an organization created to regulate social conventions it is merely doing what it is designed to do. It puts people in the armed forces, taxes property regulates the use of property, etc. That's its function. If a nation will severely suffer from more people than it can handle or is good for the environment it will merely do what it is supposed to do.


Government is tyranny and taxation is theft. Maybe people ought to read 1st Samuel Chap 8 for a lesson in government.

For a good essay on the nature of government the first chapter of -Common Sense- by Thomas Paine would be a good start.

Look here:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyameric ... /text.html

There are no good governments. There are only bad governments and worse governments.

ruveyn



Sand
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10 Apr 2009, 9:38 am

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:


Governments "violate" property all the time since property is a social convention and government is an organization created to regulate social conventions it is merely doing what it is designed to do. It puts people in the armed forces, taxes property regulates the use of property, etc. That's its function. If a nation will severely suffer from more people than it can handle or is good for the environment it will merely do what it is supposed to do.


Government is tyranny and taxation is theft. Maybe people ought to read 1st Samuel Chap 8 for a lesson in government.

For a good essay on the nature of government the first chapter of -Common Sense- by Thomas Paine would be a good start.

Look here:
http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyameric ... /text.html

There are no good governments. There are only bad governments and worse governments.

ruveyn


And therefore, a total lack of government should be an ideal situation, shouldn't it?



Haliphron
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10 Apr 2009, 10:19 am

ruveyn: Thomas Paine was NOT an anarchist. Equating ALL forms of government with tyranny is the quintessential anarchist creed. Without government, civilization would be pretty much impossible.



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10 Apr 2009, 11:28 am

Signs654 wrote:
I wonder if Boots is against animal shelters putting animals to sleep.


I wonder if he is pro capital punishment.


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ruveyn
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10 Apr 2009, 1:46 pm

Haliphron wrote:
ruveyn: Thomas Paine was NOT an anarchist. Equating ALL forms of government with tyranny is the quintessential anarchist creed. Without government, civilization would be pretty much impossible.


That is true. Paine considered a certain amount of government a necessary evil. I point out that a necessary evil is an evil, just the same. As I claim, there are no good governments (not a single one now, ever or in the future), there are bad governments and worse governments.

ruveyn



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10 Apr 2009, 9:05 pm

I love it when the title of the thread shows that an open-minded, rational person invites to intelligent and educated debate.


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Haliphron
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11 Apr 2009, 11:02 am

Sallamandrina wrote:
I love it when the title of the thread shows that an open-minded, rational person invites to intelligent and educated debate.


Where is the OP anyway? :?



just_ben
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11 Apr 2009, 11:30 am

"What a woman does with her body is her own f*ckin' business"

Image


8)

If you're asking me, Kevin Smith was on to something with that.


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11 Apr 2009, 2:29 pm

Wellll, i had my class of archeology of civilizations, and if there is one thing we've learned from studying prime states (such as Mochicas, Harappa, Egypt, Shang's China, the Mayas and even Easter island to some extent) is that ALL civilizations are primarly unstable =/ . Most of them don't last forever. Now we just need to wonder when will it be the West's turn. =/



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12 Apr 2009, 1:43 am

2012.


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