Criteria for evidence of a God.

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greenblue
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09 Dec 2008, 2:53 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

z0rp wrote:

I just really don't understand at all. You're saying he has, give an example please. And the second part appears to have nothing to do with God.

zOrp the second part was a referrence to Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy and was put there for the sake of humour. Orwell was refering to my original post about Life, the universe and everything which is the third book in the five part trilogy.

Ok Orwell, you believe that 'god' reveals 'himself' in many ways and that there are many clues, can you provide examples of this that do not have a sound scientific explanation.

He had revealed himself through few members on WP, but no one listens

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09 Dec 2008, 2:54 pm

OK, now I'll be serious.

DentArthurDent wrote:

Ok Orwell, you believe that 'god' reveals 'himself' in many ways and that there are many clues, can you provide examples of this that do not have a sound scientific explanation.

No I can not, because I do not believe God and science to be mutually exclusive or in opposition.

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09 Dec 2008, 3:03 pm

Orwell wrote:

OK, now I'll be serious.

DentArthurDent wrote:

Ok Orwell, you believe that 'god' reveals 'himself' in many ways and that there are many clues, can you provide examples of this that do not have a sound scientific explanation.

No I can not, because I do not believe God and science to be mutually exclusive or in opposition.

So are you saying that science just shows how god created things?

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09 Dec 2008, 3:39 pm

Orwell wrote:

OK, now I'll be serious.

DentArthurDent wrote:

Ok Orwell, you believe that 'god' reveals 'himself' in many ways and that there are many clues, can you provide examples of this that do not have a sound scientific explanation.

No I can not, because I do not believe God and science to be mutually exclusive or in opposition.

the issue is, though, that if you use science and the scientific method, then god doesn't co-exist. you create an exception to the rule. it's not an attempt to put the two in opposition...it just happens and everyone shoves their heads in the sand about it and keeps on retconning the story to better fit the world basically removes any validity to the text anyways. and the text itself is never altered anyways but rather passages are simply ignored or enforced. that's not science.

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09 Dec 2008, 7:30 pm

just_ben wrote:

Oh, thank you.
So.... agree to disagree? Will that last a fortnight?

Nah, I definitely err on the side of theism. Still, proponents of either ideology really need to pay a heck of a lot more attention to the quality of their arguments or just watch and really pay close attention to those who are already the best of the best so to speak debate and just ignore the rest. Atheists and theists are converging on the same reality anyway and its only a matter of time before that dichotomy shrinks to practically nothing.

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10 Dec 2008, 12:39 am

Fnord wrote:

I respectfully disagree.

If the Biblical Jesus suddenly appeared standing next to me, spoke to me directly, identified Himself, and healed all my afflictions (except for my Aspieness - it's not an affliction to me) right there on the spot, then I would call Him "My Lord, My King, and My Saviour" to His face.

If such a thing happened to you, would that be sufficent proof?

No, I'm not arguing for the existance of the Biblical Jesus, only offering what I consider could be sufficient evidence.

Well, ok, and I would bet that this has happened to some people, at least, to their knowledge. Has God been proven? No, we don't trust the knowledge of those people! Thus, there is still no valid way to prove God. As for accepting an entity's existence, well... you don't need proof, you just got to accept it. People believe things without proof all of the freaking time.

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10 Dec 2008, 1:31 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

It's not hard to find plenty of people who claim personal knowledge of the Lord, but that knowledge is, of course, convincing only to themselves. Thus, Fnord seems to be asking to be one of those people, rather than asking for actual proof. Yes, people believe lots of things without proof. Hate to be the one to say it folks, but just about everything you've learned about history, science, or anything else you have chosen to believe without proof.

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10 Dec 2008, 1:48 am

Orwell wrote:

Well, I agree with you Orwell. I just did not want to go out and say that last part, but it is true.

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10 Dec 2008, 2:37 am

Since an all powerful God cannot be proven or disproved and current belief is that we all have free will to do as we please and no physical forces seem to be needed to keep the universe from operating why worry if there is a God or not. Morality is a set of regulations made by humans to keep things operating properly and seem to change as necessity requires. Why bother with God?

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10 Dec 2008, 2:44 am

Sand wrote:

Why bother with God?

"we all have free will to do as we please", duh!

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10 Dec 2008, 2:48 am

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Sand wrote:

Why bother with God?

"we all have free will to do as we please", duh!

Well, actually, I think free will is nonsense but religious people are fond of it. The catch is "to do as we please". What pleases us is not free.

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10 Dec 2008, 2:52 am

Orwell wrote:

DentArthurDent wrote:

Ok Orwell, you believe that 'god' reveals 'himself' in many ways and that there are many clues, can you provide examples of this that do not have a sound scientific explanation.

42.

Nice

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10 Dec 2008, 2:55 am

Sand wrote:

Well, actually, I think free will is nonsense but religious people are fond of it. The catch is "to do as we please". What pleases us is not free.

Excuse me, I am a Calvinist.

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10 Dec 2008, 3:09 am

Orwell wrote:

Sand wrote:

Well, actually, I think free will is nonsense but religious people are fond of it. The catch is "to do as we please". What pleases us is not free.

Excuse me, I am a Calvinist.

It really doesn't matter to me if you're the Easter Bunny. Our desires are not randomly motivated.

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10 Dec 2008, 3:28 am

Sand wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Sand wrote:

Well, actually, I think free will is nonsense but religious people are fond of it. The catch is "to do as we please". What pleases us is not free.

Excuse me, I am a Calvinist.

It really doesn't matter to me if you're the Easter Bunny. Our desires are not randomly motivated.

I never said they were, but you evidently are not aware of what Calvinism is. Wikipedia is your friend, but to sum it up: Calvinists are Protestant Christians who believe in predestination, which rather undermines most conceptions of free will.

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10 Dec 2008, 10:40 am

Orwell wrote:

Sand wrote:

Orwell wrote:

Sand wrote:

Well, actually, I think free will is nonsense but religious people are fond of it. The catch is "to do as we please". What pleases us is not free.

Excuse me, I am a Calvinist.

It really doesn't matter to me if you're the Easter Bunny. Our desires are not randomly motivated.

Right. I had heard that Calvinists believed we were condemned from birth but somehow I'd forgotten. Thanks for reminding me.

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