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Livni: Israeli Arabs should move to Palestine once state...

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nara44
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16 Dec 2008, 6:18 am

0_equals_true wrote:
Some of the most vocal critics of Israel are Jewish. Not all of them are anti-Zionist either.

Personally my position is that Israel was ill connived and rushed, and probably shouldn't have been allowed to happen (given that the majority of pre WII Jews were against Zionism and reactionism is never good especially if you repeat the injustices of the past). However there is no turning back the clock. It has a right to exist in some form as does Palestine.


Some of the most vocal critics of Israel are Israelis,
that's the meaning of democracy and freedom of speech and ppl here r raised to speak freely and question and oppose authority and no one here was ever punished or silenced,
The arab minority here demonstrate for the destruction of Israel and waves Hamas flags and as long there is there is no violence no one stands in their way,i'm not sure u'll find such freedom in many countries,yet,you and your likes, find our right to exist as a nation still a debateable subject,
no wonder many ppl here view American and European views of Israel as unworthy,
if any ppl ever deserved an homeland i think ,jews ,who were persecuted and murdered for centuries all over the world are certainly good candidates,
i repeat.Israel is not the worst place in the world,horrible atrocities r committed all over the world every day,by US,by Sudan,Congo,Russia,burma,china'the list is long'
the state of civil rights in most arab countries is a shame and disgrace,yet,the most condemned nation in the world is Israel,
if u add that to our horrible history of living among u guys u can understand why many Israelis think u full of sh**t



Macbeth
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16 Dec 2008, 7:14 am

Hurricane_Delta wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Hurricane_Delta wrote:
True, there is a skewed view of the west. That is because our countries are giving Saudi Arabia and there backwater hick version of Islam a pedestal by buying their oil (This goes for my country as well). Start promoting a secular Muslim country over Saudi Arabia, like Turkey. Oh, but for some bigoted reason, you will not allow an Islamic country to join the EU, or for that matter, treating Turks throughout the EU proper without prejudice (In Germany especially). I am very certain that Kosovo, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Azerbaijan, or Turkey will NOT join the European Union before 2030. All because they are Muslim. You're countries will always find a tiny issue to nitpick at. For the record, I am not some right-winger, in fact, I'm a Social Democrat by European standards. However, it seems the bigotry in Europe is the worst its been since just before the Holocaust. And, for claiming Europe is calmer now, what was going on the 90's in the Balkans? There is still instability in Europe, even if you don't want to see it.


Who said I can't see bigotry or instability? That is my whole point. Events like genocide are observed by the world, and tried by the world. In the forties it was possible to murder millions and hide it, through poor communications. There isn't a place in Europe that lacks access to a vast amount of media.. most of it completely uncontrolled or regulated by national interests. Trying to hide the slaughter of millions would be nigh on impossible.

Kosovo, Bosnia & Herzegovina are not Muslim nations, which I seem to recall was half the issue in the 90s. The very mixed and unstable nature of those areas of the world make them an unsafe bet for entry into the EU.... And Turkey? Allowing Turkey in would open the gates for even more uncontrolled mass-immigration, and the infrastructure of most European nations simply will not withstand such a thing. I very much doubt they are disallowed simply because they are Muslim. As for Muslim prejudice against the west... it has little to do with what the Saudis are doing or how much oil they have. How WE view Saudi Arabia changes nothing about how everyone else views us.

And personally, I dont think we as a nation should have anything to do with the EU or its federalisation plans.


Kosovo is 90% Muslim. Bosnia is plurality Muslim, at 45%. And why would Turkey being part of the EU cause more illegal immigration? They already come through there now. So, by your logic, Turkey should be denied entry, because the EU is too incompetant to actually control their own borders? (For the record, I say the same about the US.) It sounds like a cop out to me.

Oh, and you, I think, are very nieve to suggest that somehow Genocide will be stopped by information. It took 3 years for the western world to stop a genocide by the generally unliked country of Serbia. You going to tell me that some of the most liked countries will go against each other to stop one from doing genocide? Europe has a long and bloody history of scape-goating a specific ethnic or religious group of people with disturbing consequences. And, the pattern seems to be starting again with Muslims. And the Saudi thing I was refering to earlier? What I was saying is that by buying oil from them, you are allowing Saudi Arabia to promote an explicitly Anti-Western version of Islam. If you don't like what you are seeing in terms of radicalization, stop buying oil from them and start supporting the local versions of Islam, the most extreme example being Oman's version.


You aren't reading what I'm writing properly. I never mentioned ILLEGAL immigration.. I said UNCONTROLLED. The mass exodus of thousands of people from one nation to another causes all sorts of crap in the economy. That's what I'm talking about. And yes, its down to EU incompetence.

The more recent crop of ethnic cleansing has happened on a much smaller scale, within the borders of specific nations. The holocaust was a multi-national attempt with many more people. In order to kill all the Muslims in Europe, one would first have to control the whole of Europe.. as did Germany.. and ship those Muslims to their deaths. As yet the EU lacks that much control, and is unlikely to ever gain so much that it could enact such a policy.. which it would not, because there is too much to lose by enraging other Muslim nations.. like the ones who supply our oil. Also, any nation attempting to wrest control of a whole continent would no doubt engage the ire of other nations of the world. The Allies in ww2 were not fighting to prevent genocide, but it happened nevertheless, by defeating their enemy. Do you really think that one nation in Europe could again try to exert so much power across the whole continent that it would NOT end up in a war with someone.. be it the UK, Iran, the US, China.. whoever... ?


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