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Who or What is God?

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gina-ghettoprincess
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05 Feb 2009, 1:27 pm

Why does something have to be eternal in order to be enjoyed? Can't humans just live for the moment?


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ruveyn
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05 Feb 2009, 2:58 pm

gina-ghettoprincess wrote:
Why does something have to be eternal in order to be enjoyed? Can't humans just live for the moment?


We already do. We can live and have fun for about 23,000 days (at current life expectancy). Enjoy. Use your time wisely. It is the only money you have.

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JoJerome
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05 Feb 2009, 5:38 pm

slowmutant wrote:
If the atheists are right, why does life matter at all? What's the point of anything if we're destined to be nothing more than maggot food?


Why does no god = nothing more than maggot food?

There are plenty of people - myself included - who see zero evidence for the existence of god(s), yet do see how, scientifically, there can still be an afterlife. Energy changes and transforms into different energy.

- Jo



Sand
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05 Feb 2009, 5:47 pm

JoJerome wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
If the atheists are right, why does life matter at all? What's the point of anything if we're destined to be nothing more than maggot food?


Why does no god = nothing more than maggot food?

There are plenty of people - myself included - who see zero evidence for the existence of god(s), yet do see how, scientifically, there can still be an afterlife. Energy changes and transforms into different energy.

- Jo


The concept that raw energy somehow possesses consciousness and intellect is most peculiar. My electric toaster has probably as much energy as my computer but even the most imperceptive observer would not make them equivalent.



JoJerome
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05 Feb 2009, 5:51 pm

Among other things, 'god' is...

- The answer you give when you don't know the answer but are too egotistical to admit it or too fearful of the unknown.

- A political tool for controlling your children, your spouse, your congregation, your constituents.

- An ego boost. "God spoke to me..." (because as someone here already mentioned, God places a higher priority on telling you how you are special and everyone else around you is not, rather than, say, feeding a starving child or saving an abuse victim).

- If we are talking about the god of the Judeo-Christian bible - racist, sexist, supports slavery, genocide, child sacrifice, rape, punishing the child for the sins of the father, and can't get its own autobiography straight. If such a god exists, it is no god of mine.



slowmutant
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05 Feb 2009, 6:48 pm

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God places a higher priority on telling you how you are special and everyone else around you is not, rather than, say, feeding a starving child or saving an abuse victim


God works through people to do things like feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and comfort the dying. I am appalled at your bitterness and hate-filled words.



Haliphron
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05 Feb 2009, 6:54 pm

Abu_Zarqawi wrote:
saying that god is an abstract thing is trying to describe it. and trying to describe god, or rather the meaning behind the word as you said, is an utterly pointless exercise. it cannot be grasped or understood, because its not something rational, and it cannot be felt, because its not something emotional. in a way i think it can be experienced, but its not really an experience either. rather its the absence of any experience



You just might be right about that. :idea:



slowmutant
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05 Feb 2009, 6:59 pm

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and it cannot be felt, because its not something emotional. in a way i think it can be experienced, but its not really an experience either. rather its the absence of any experience


I respectfully disagree.

I think God can felt and can be experienced. I have often felt His Spirit within me. I have often been indwelled by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is feeling, an experience, and emotion. Joy, elation, peace, and tranquility are words I would use to describe this indwelling of the Holy Spirit.



twoshots
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06 Feb 2009, 12:36 am

JoJerome wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
If the atheists are right, why does life matter at all? What's the point of anything if we're destined to be nothing more than maggot food?


Why does no god = nothing more than maggot food?

There are plenty of people - myself included - who see zero evidence for the existence of god(s), yet do see how, scientifically, there can still be an afterlife. Energy changes and transforms into different energy.

- Jo

And another classic way to abuse a physical law. How is consciousness even energy in the first place?


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ruveyn
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06 Feb 2009, 6:05 am

slowmutant wrote:
Quote:
and it cannot be felt, because its not something emotional. in a way i think it can be experienced, but its not really an experience either. rather its the absence of any experience


I respectfully disagree.

I think God can felt and can be experienced. I have often felt His Spirit within me. I have often been indwelled by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit is feeling, an experience, and emotion. Joy, elation, peace, and tranquility are words I would use to describe this indwelling of the Holy Spirit.


I once had some rather painful surgery and they shot me up with some morphine derivative. What I felt was joy, elation, peace and tranquility. Now it is well known that the brain produces indigenous endorphins which produce the same effect as morphine. So why do you so suppose God is at work, when it could just as well be endorphins? Did you check? Or did you jump to a conclusion?

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slowmutant
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06 Feb 2009, 7:39 am

I've never been shot up with morphine, but I have experienced bipolar manic phases. I can tell the difference between mere giddiness and something genuine more profound. I've had plenty of motive & opportunity to ponder the difference.

Oh, why can't I ever convince you? :(



Sand
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06 Feb 2009, 8:30 am

slowmutant wrote:
I've never been shot up with morphine, but I have experienced bipolar manic phases. I can tell the difference between mere giddiness and something genuine more profound. I've had plenty of motive & opportunity to ponder the difference.

Oh, why can't I ever convince you? :(


Because we each have our personal delusions.



slowmutant
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06 Feb 2009, 9:48 am

Sand wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
I've never been shot up with morphine, but I have experienced bipolar manic phases. I can tell the difference between mere giddiness and something genuine more profound. I've had plenty of motive & opportunity to ponder the difference.

Oh, why can't I ever convince you? :(


Because we each have our personal delusions.


Fair enough.



greenblue
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06 Feb 2009, 12:00 pm

slowmutant wrote:
I've never been shot up with morphine, but I have experienced bipolar manic phases. I can tell the difference between mere giddiness and something genuine more profound. I've had plenty of motive & opportunity to ponder the difference.

Oh, why can't I ever convince you? :(

Evidence that is not that ambiguous as the one you described, and claiming having experienced God or the Holy Spirit in that way, seems a bit strech and it seems more like a correlation between sensations and a belief system, people often misinterpret such things pointing towards a biased position, so that type of evidence is unreliable and skeptics know that, which is why they don't accept it.


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ruveyn
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06 Feb 2009, 12:14 pm

Sand wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
I've never been shot up with morphine, but I have experienced bipolar manic phases. I can tell the difference between mere giddiness and something genuine more profound. I've had plenty of motive & opportunity to ponder the difference.

Oh, why can't I ever convince you? :(


Because we each have our personal delusions.


Or our own experiences.

ruveyn



greenblue
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06 Feb 2009, 12:15 pm

slowmutant wrote:
If the atheists are right, why does life matter at all? What's the point of anything if we're destined to be nothing more than maggot food?

well, the argument "what's the point if God doesn't exist?" is problematic, to make a valid point regarding the existence of God or an afterlife, because that does not seem to sustain a logical value rather, appeal to emotion. Wether we find hope in a set of belief system, that does not make it true, the metaphysical objective truth, whatever that is, is irrelevant to our emotions, hopes and dreams.


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Last edited by greenblue on 06 Feb 2009, 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.