I'm intrested to see if anyone will even argue this one.

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Will there be a great depression?
yes 42%  42%  [ 16 ]
mabie 37%  37%  [ 14 ]
no 13%  13%  [ 5 ]
I dont know 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 38

MrMisanthrope
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28 Feb 2009, 11:09 pm

That's because there were 13 seperate Fiat Currencies. They had no intrinsic value.

Anything that can be traded (bartered) that is traed regularly enough can become specie. That could be anything from diamonds to eggs.

The only reason metal coins have, throughout history, become a storhouse of wealth is because they are easy to carry and don't spoil.

Look again, and read closely. http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2009/tle507-20090222-02.html

Think about it. Without Fiat Money there could be no counterfitting. You cannot counterfit 1oz of metal-X any more than you can you counterfit an egg.

Gold &/or Silver in raw metal form was used quite successfully in the western US for many years. As long as there is an accepted assay, then a one ounce coin produced by Bob Johnson is identical in value to a one ounce coin produced by Sahib Gupta.

If God loses its value (from oversupply) some other form of specie will replace it - as the market demands.


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Legato
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01 Mar 2009, 6:44 am

pezar wrote:
I don't think we should have money at all. Large extended families should make most of what they consume themselves, and barter for what they can't. It would be primitive, and could only support a world population of about 300 million, but those 300 million would live pure lives. Life would be hard, but more importantly there would be none of this relying on other people for stuff.


Although I might consider agreeing with you, please do me a favor and articulate how this society of yours would come into being from today.

MrMisanthrope wrote:
If God loses its value (from oversupply) some other form of specie will replace it - as the market demands.


Best. Misspell. Ever.



MrMisanthrope
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01 Mar 2009, 12:08 pm

Legato wrote:
...
MrMisanthrope wrote:
If God loses its value (from oversupply) some other form of specie will replace it - as the market demands.


Best. Misspell. Ever.

Thank you. Now that you pointed it out, I am rather proud of it... :wink:


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01 Mar 2009, 2:31 pm

MrMisanthrope wrote:
Think about it. Without Fiat Money there could be no counterfitting. You cannot counterfit 1oz of metal-X any more than you can you counterfit an egg.

Actually, in a way metal CAN be counterfitted if it's diluted.



MrMisanthrope
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01 Mar 2009, 3:05 pm

Cyanide wrote:
MrMisanthrope wrote:
Think about it. Without Fiat Money there could be no counterfitting. You cannot counterfit 1oz of metal-X any more than you can you counterfit an egg.

Actually, in a way metal CAN be counterfitted if it's diluted.

That's why I qualified my statement by accepting the necessity of legally enforced assay standards...


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01 Mar 2009, 6:07 pm

Legato wrote:
pezar wrote:
I don't think we should have money at all. Large extended families should make most of what they consume themselves, and barter for what they can't. It would be primitive, and could only support a world population of about 300 million, but those 300 million would live pure lives. Life would be hard, but more importantly there would be none of this relying on other people for stuff.


Although I might consider agreeing with you, please do me a favor and articulate how this society of yours would come into being from today.


Smallpox released by Al Qaeda kills 95% of the human race. Only small communities remain. Humanity is forced back into a primitive state of existence. It would be like what happened after the fall of Rome, only global. It would be a perfect society from an evolutionary standpoint. Did you know that clinical depression does not exist in primitive tribes? Our society has created cars, skyscrapers, and computers, among other things, but it has poisoned the planet, led to an unsustainable level of people, and is making us all insane. Would I give up everything to live a simple existence? I've considered it, but making a full break is generally impossible as the Unabomber discovered. His inability to ditch the modern world eventually led him to strike back out of rage. The rest of society would need to be dismantled too, and the only way it will happen is via global collapse.



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01 Mar 2009, 6:30 pm

pezar wrote:
Legato wrote:
pezar wrote:
I don't think we should have money at all. Large extended families should make most of what they consume themselves, and barter for what they can't. It would be primitive, and could only support a world population of about 300 million, but those 300 million would live pure lives. Life would be hard, but more importantly there would be none of this relying on other people for stuff.


Although I might consider agreeing with you, please do me a favor and articulate how this society of yours would come into being from today.


Smallpox released by Al Qaeda kills 95% of the human race. Only small communities remain. Humanity is forced back into a primitive state of existence. It would be like what happened after the fall of Rome, only global. It would be a perfect society from an evolutionary standpoint. Did you know that clinical depression does not exist in primitive tribes? Our society has created cars, skyscrapers, and computers, among other things, but it has poisoned the planet, led to an unsustainable level of people, and is making us all insane. Would I give up everything to live a simple existence? I've considered it, but making a full break is generally impossible as the Unabomber discovered. His inability to ditch the modern world eventually led him to strike back out of rage. The rest of society would need to be dismantled too, and the only way it will happen is via global collapse.




:roll:

Have you been taking your meds? Or maybe I should ask what you've been smokin' :lol:
This really sounds like a Lunatic Fringe conspiracy theory. I honestly DO NOT think that there will be a depression, even though the recession will be harsh and many people will suffer job loss. But the more talk like this, the more it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy because it further erode consumer confidence; which must be restored to get the economy back up to speed.



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01 Mar 2009, 9:20 pm

pezar wrote:
I don't think we should have money at all. Large extended families should make most of what they consume themselves, and barter for what they can't. It would be primitive, and could only support a world population of about 300 million, but those 300 million would live pure lives. Life would be hard, but more importantly there would be none of this relying on other people for stuff.

Yeah right. I have better things to do than waste my life toiling away making soap, butter, crapping outside in the dead of winter, and eking out my meager existence by pure chance and the whims of nature. I don't know what your deal is with this "a more pure life" business because it's a rather crude life. To live a more pure life would be a life of spiritual and intellectual growth, not simply a grinding away of the muscles and intellectual stagnation. There's a good reason why we don't live like people used to 150 years ago.

pezar wrote:
Smallpox released by Al Qaeda kills 95% of the human race. Only small communities remain. Humanity is forced back into a primitive state of existence. It would be like what happened after the fall of Rome, only global.

Well guess what, you can take your neo-ludite trash and shove it. Go live with the Amish or move to alaska (a lot of untapped land there) and get eaten by a bear. Even if terrorists do reduce civilization to the extent that you assume they will, it's only a matter of time before civilization is rebuilt and there's a new renaissance. It's happened more than once. Why? Because it's human nature to create.

Quote:
Did you know that clinical depression does not exist in primitive tribes?

Did you know primitive tribes kill each other and cannibalize their victims? That's not just the random bad apple like in our society, that's life for them. The primitive life is a savage and barbaric life. Just try and visit any of the last tribes which still exist in the rain forest and see for yourself.

Quote:
Would I give up everything to live a simple existence? I've considered it, but making a full break is generally impossible as the Unabomber discovered. His inability to ditch the modern world eventually led him to strike back out of rage. The rest of society would need to be dismantled too, and the only way it will happen is via global collapse.

I think it's fitting you bring up the Unabomber. His irrational murdering and hatred is what the anti-civ is at its core: It's barbarism.


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01 Mar 2009, 9:42 pm

Haliphron wrote:
:roll:

Have you been taking your meds? Or maybe I should ask what you've been smokin' :lol:
This really sounds like a Lunatic Fringe conspiracy theory. I honestly DO NOT think that there will be a depression, even though the recession will be harsh and many people will suffer job loss. But the more talk like this, the more it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy because it further erode consumer confidence; which must be restored to get the economy back up to speed.

Agreed. Of course, I don't think that sort of insanity will erode consumer confidence. I think it will push things in the opposite direction out of pure revulsion.


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05 Mar 2009, 9:57 pm

Haliphron wrote:

:roll:

Have you been taking your meds? I honestly DO NOT think that there will be a depression.


The question is not "if" its "when".

US dollars are not backed by anything. If you look at all the country's that were not backed by gold or something of that sort you will see a trend, their currency collapsed.

That's why I think the dollar will collapse. Maybe not now but but someday because it is inevitable

Right now I think were headed to A depression similar to what Germany suffered before the Nazi took over.



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05 Mar 2009, 10:00 pm

just-me wrote:
Haliphron wrote:

:roll:

Have you been taking your meds? I honestly DO NOT think that there will be a depression.


The question is not "if" its "when".

US dollars are not backed by anything. If you look at all the country's that were not backed by gold or something of that sort you will see a trend, their currency collapsed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone use fiat currency now?


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05 Mar 2009, 10:02 pm

twoshots wrote:
...Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone use fiat currency now?

Sadly.

Except those areas that have a subsistence/barter economy because the Fiat Currency of their Overlords is worthless...


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05 Mar 2009, 11:55 pm

twoshots wrote:
just-me wrote:
Haliphron wrote:

:roll:

Have you been taking your meds? I honestly DO NOT think that there will be a depression.


The question is not "if" its "when".

US dollars are not backed by anything. If you look at all the country's that were not backed by gold or something of that sort you will see a trend, their currency collapsed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't everyone use fiat currency now?


yes and now we are having a global crisis . do you see a trend?



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06 Mar 2009, 4:32 am

we are already in one.


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06 Mar 2009, 9:53 am

A very long article about what happened in 1722 with Fiat Money & Fractional Reserve Banking...

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2009/tle508-20090301-08.html


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