The abortion debate

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09 Mar 2009, 6:41 am

Pro-choice
I find that the mother should have the choice before the foetus turns into an actual human being. I agree with the limit on how old the foetus should be (obviously) when removed. If abortion was banned there would be many lonely children given up for adoption, as well as deaths from backstreet ones.

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gemstone123
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09 Mar 2009, 2:28 pm

I'd say that I was pro-life although there are extreme circumstances where the mother's life is in danger. Plus it is a person's choice so I would never try to forcibly stop someone from doing it even if I am against it.

anna-banana
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09 Mar 2009, 2:41 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Here is my position, its just a bunch of cells, not viable yet to support life. The nervous systems and brain are not fully formed so who cares. My main concern is the welfare of the woman involved.

You Pro-lifers really annoy me because in general you are a bunch of bloody bible bashing conservatives who go on and on about morality then support your governments when they want to invade and kill. Yes it is a broad pen that I am using but looking at the people that get onto the TV to spout there message of hate what other conclusion can I come too.

Get over it the damn foetus is unaware. So what if one of you has friends that were the result of a rape and were adopted out, if they had been aborted they and you would no nothing about it, they only feel lucky because they are able to. Same with me I was an unwanted pregnancy, and was nearly aborted, knowing this does not make me shudder and go feeew that was a close call, because had I been aborted I wouldn't know about it and therefore wouldn't have cared.

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09 Mar 2009, 4:28 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

Orwell wrote:

a foetus (spelling this way to please the leftist pragmatist)

I'm pleased to have raised the etymologic understanding of at least one uncouth yank. Careful with the LP accusation; the party does not have a sense of humour and I might get kicked out :lol:

Once again, an excellent example of a word where Americans use the proper spelling, while the rest of the English speaking world persists in using a mistake, irrespective of its antiquity.

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09 Mar 2009, 5:17 pm

Sand wrote:

Bataar wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

ForgottenDarkness wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

I am pro-choice, but not because it would go against femminism to be otherwise. I just consider the health of the mother above that of the fetus.

but that would be pro compassion

But I don't consider the fetus to be human life.

Why not? Is it not a living creature with unique DNA completely different from the mother and is human in species? Sounds like a human life as valid as any other to me.

Using your logic a sperm and an unfertilized egg are also human life which, like a fetus merely needs proper development to become a full fledged human. Total conservation of sperm or unfertilized eggs is obviously insane impracticality. Full fledged humans are daily tossed away by the thousands with little protest from anti-abortionists who are so concerned about a few cells.

Please tell me you're just pretending to be that stupid to try to make a bad point. If not, can you cite one example throughout all of human history where a single sperm or egg, left unattended grew into a human being? C'mon, just a single one. I can point to billions of examples where fetus became an adult human being so if you can point to just one example, I'd appreciate it. Also, show me a single sperm and/or egg that has a developing brain, nervous system, internal organs, it's own unique DNA, etc. Thanks.

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09 Mar 2009, 6:17 pm

ForgottenDarkness wrote:

There are three choices (opposed to the normal 2)

PRO LIFE - "babies are a gift from God, and we should not kill God's creation, than we will be playing God. All humans have the right to life as in the UN's DHR."
PRO COMPASSION - "we generally disagree with the thought of taking human life, however there are extenuating circumstances that have to be taken into account. Otherwise adoption is a viable option."
PRO CHOICE - "the fetus is a part of the body, just like a liver or kidney. The lady should have the right to choose the have the fetus removed just like she can choose to have the kidney removed. Not having this choice is a blow back for feminism."

Bottom line: each of us owns his/her body and time.

ruveyn

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09 Mar 2009, 8:40 pm

Life is life that's all there is to it. IMO

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09 Mar 2009, 9:27 pm

-sings the song "Life is life! nana nanana!"- sorry :p

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09 Mar 2009, 10:47 pm

Orwell wrote:

As you can see, each side's conclusion follows quite easily from their assumptions. You should not be arguing over the conclusion, but instead over whose definitions are correct. Too often I see these debates and neither side will address the foundation of the disagreement, preferring a shouting match of old, tired arguments.

Well put.

Quote:

However, there are some situations where there is no better option. To look at young women who have found themselves in an incredibly difficult and painful situation and to make it that much harder on them by passing judgment is incredibly callous. Place me in the "pro compassion" camp.

Please don't think that a pro-lifer would look at a situation like that and feel no compassion, and to top it all off, then go and pass judgement. For Christians, like myself, compassion and not passing judgement are actually religious requirements...

At my old church we had a 'crisis pregnancy center' (IIRC it was a cooperative thing between several churches). It was considered one of the more important things we did, and it had only 2 purposes -- to promote non-abortion alternatives and to help those young ladies that were in that difficult spot due to pregnancy.

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Sand
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09 Mar 2009, 11:36 pm

Bataar wrote:

Sand wrote:

Bataar wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

ForgottenDarkness wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

I am pro-choice, but not because it would go against femminism to be otherwise. I just consider the health of the mother above that of the fetus.

but that would be pro compassion

But I don't consider the fetus to be human life.

Why not? Is it not a living creature with unique DNA completely different from the mother and is human in species? Sounds like a human life as valid as any other to me.

In the development of a human (or most other life) various components are vital for the final independent creature to be produced. Any individual component can be vital. The first product of a fertilized egg is a mere few cells with no prospect whatsoever for independent life. The bulk of the time a fetus is under development in the womb it has no capacity for independent life. A sperm or an egg is a vital component of life and has the potential, with the addition of its opposite member, to become an independent human. The avid glance of a fertile male human at a female human's fascinating behind has the potential for producing a new human being. All of these components have this potential and a premature fetus is further along the way but it is still not worth considering a human being. There is no clear line of demarcation of when a developing organism should be accepted as a viable creature - that is a matter of circumstance and personal and social choice.

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10 Mar 2009, 3:05 am

Sand wrote:

Bataar wrote:

Sand wrote:

Bataar wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

ForgottenDarkness wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

I am pro-choice, but not because it would go against femminism to be otherwise. I just consider the health of the mother above that of the fetus.

but that would be pro compassion

But I don't consider the fetus to be human life.

Why not? Is it not a living creature with unique DNA completely different from the mother and is human in species? Sounds like a human life as valid as any other to me.

I'm not talking about independent life, I'm talking about human life. By your logic, a person who needs a respirator should not have the right to life because it is not independent and requires a machine. The bottom line is that barring outside interference or other medical problems, a fertilized egg will grow into a human being. A sperm will not. An egg will not.

Sand
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10 Mar 2009, 3:51 am

Bataar wrote:

Sand wrote:

Bataar wrote:

Sand wrote:

Bataar wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

ForgottenDarkness wrote:

FieryGatoh wrote:

I am pro-choice, but not because it would go against femminism to be otherwise. I just consider the health of the mother above that of the fetus.

but that would be pro compassion

But I don't consider the fetus to be human life.

Why not? Is it not a living creature with unique DNA completely different from the mother and is human in species? Sounds like a human life as valid as any other to me.

Depending upon specific conditions natural abortions (miscarriages) vary from 25% to 75%. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miscarriage. There are many reasons aside from artificial methods that determine the maturation of a fertilized egg.
To assume that each fertilized egg inevitably results in a viable human is simply a myth.

ruveyn
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10 Mar 2009, 5:09 am

stonemask wrote:

Life is life that's all there is to it. IMO

What sort of life? Bacteria and virus have life too. Shall we avoid killing them?

Human life in not inherently sacred. The lives of bad, evil humans should be terminated post haste. In the bad old days we used to hang thieves and murderers. Now we keep them alive at great expense.

ruveyn

Sand
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10 Mar 2009, 5:15 am

ruveyn wrote:

stonemask wrote:

Life is life that's all there is to it. IMO

There are many situations aside from the criminal where human life is considered expendable. It's cheaper to keep criminals alive under the present criminal system than to execute them and there are very strong indications that people have been executed when they were innocent, but that's off topic.

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10 Mar 2009, 9:48 pm

Chibi_Neko wrote:

Yeah I have noticed that SM hasn't posted since the last abortion debate as well.

Anyway I am pro-choice, however not a fan of late-term abortion unless it is a threat the life of the mother. If a woman doesn't want the a baby she should abort it before it becomes viable and able to survive in a incubator to be adopted out.

Abortions can be prevented with proper education and easy access to contraceptives. Religious nuts and whiny moms saying "I don't want my little girl on birth control because it will encourage sex" need to wake up to reality.

Kids are going to have sex anyway, it's best that they know what they are getting into so that they can take precautions.

More acceptance of contraceptives will mean abortions will be less needed.

i couldn't have said it better my self.

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11 Mar 2009, 12:11 am

" Now we keep them alive at great expense. "

Because we think we can "use" them, right? ;p

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