Do you think Heinreich Himmler was an Aspie?
01 Jun 2011, 9:00 am
[quote="Perambulator"
The European Union is essentially a second America. A federation of states joined together for economic benefit. Almost all European nations before the European Union were full of problems based on their insularity and nationalism. The EUropean Union has diversified and shed light on all the provincial oversights each country previously had and they now in as much harmony and prosperity as America - more or less, except slightly less because America was born innocent and Europe still has to grapple with its ugly past and occasionally still has to struggle to cope with the symptoms of its past diseases.[/quote]
The European Union is more like the American Confederation which was replaced by the United States under the Constitution of 1787.
The nations of Europe are sovreign and can leave any time they wish.
ruveyn
MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
02 Jun 2011, 1:30 am
Dave-the-Aussie wrote:
I'm calling b/s. For a start, ALL places in the world had their share of violence and unpleasantries since being inhabited by hominids with a pointy stick. Europe was no means unique in its violent history; it has only been recorded and promoted far more than other cultures. Does anyone remember being taught about the genocide of the Armenians, the Ukranian Holdomer, the killing fields of the Khmer Rouge, or Mao's "great leap forward" in their school indoctrination/education? These are just 20th century examples; you can also be certain that 'noble savages' would be very hard to come by in real history too.
America did not win the second world war. It was a group effort, and certainly the Russians and British commonwealth countries would have a few things to say about that. 75% of the Wehrmacht casualties were to the Soviet Union, again this is something severely under-reported in most education systems. Also, a collective 'us' were never freed from the 'tyranny of our pride', in fact not many people were freed from anything much at all. People in Eastern Europe probably weren't all that delighted to be 'Liberated' by Stalin; the end result of 60 million people dying in WWII is that Poland, the country over which the war started in the first place, was occupied by Stalin instead of Hitler, which makes the 'good war' seem rather stupid when you think about it. How was this a victory for 'freedom'? Let's not get started on security molestations at airports, the federal reserve, government surveillance and the mass media today either.
The European Union is like America? Today's America maybe, but the America of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, you'd have to be joking. It's almost 180 degrees from the principles they stood for.
America did not win the second world war. It was a group effort, and certainly the Russians and British commonwealth countries would have a few things to say about that. 75% of the Wehrmacht casualties were to the Soviet Union, again this is something severely under-reported in most education systems. Also, a collective 'us' were never freed from the 'tyranny of our pride', in fact not many people were freed from anything much at all. People in Eastern Europe probably weren't all that delighted to be 'Liberated' by Stalin; the end result of 60 million people dying in WWII is that Poland, the country over which the war started in the first place, was occupied by Stalin instead of Hitler, which makes the 'good war' seem rather stupid when you think about it. How was this a victory for 'freedom'? Let's not get started on security molestations at airports, the federal reserve, government surveillance and the mass media today either.
The European Union is like America? Today's America maybe, but the America of Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, you'd have to be joking. It's almost 180 degrees from the principles they stood for.
True, every nation is born in bloodshed. India is a great example, and they'd send millions of bodies back and forth between Pakistan and India filled with dead hindu's to the hindu state and dead muslims to the muslim state. The European Union is very similar to the Future USA. Public spending is now becoming almost an equal counter-weight to private spending, and the social paradigm continues on it's secular/leftist shift.
We didn't really learn too much about most of the atrocities you list because we were too busy learning about the evils of the House on Un-American activities Committee, McCarthyism, and the Hollywood black list and because it is a poor reflection on the collective will of humanity to confront evil.
I think America was the greatest influence on how the WWII turned out and managed to beat back the Nazi's and their Italian fascist supporters, but the Japanese as well. That does suck that the understanding of most germans who were fighting the soviets was because they did not want to take their orders from Moscow, only to have that be the case.
I think the "tyranny of our pride" he is referring to is our shame due from the fact that, we're an empire that doesn't know how to behave like one, and to be freed from the arrogance that comes from being an empirical nation through an altruistic foreign policy in the service of humanity - freeing everyone from the tyranny of nazism, fascism, (and later, communism). It was an on-going process and a lot of lives lost, but we're here today, mostly deposed of all three.
_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.
02 Jun 2011, 2:25 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
True, every nation is born in bloodshed. India is a great example, and they'd send millions of bodies back and forth between Pakistan and India filled with dead hindu's to the hindu state and dead muslims to the muslim state. The European Union is very similar to the Future USA. Public spending is now becoming almost an equal counter-weight to private spending, and the social paradigm continues on it's secular/leftist shift.
We didn't really learn too much about most of the atrocities you list because we were too busy learning about the evils of the House on Un-American activities Committee, McCarthyism, and the Hollywood black list and because it is a poor reflection on the collective will of humanity to confront evil.
I think America was the greatest influence on how the WWII turned out and managed to beat back the Nazi's and their Italian fascist supporters, but the Japanese as well. That does suck that the understanding of most germans who were fighting the soviets was because they did not want to take their orders from Moscow, only to have that be the case.
I think the "tyranny of our pride" he is referring to is our shame due from the fact that, we're an empire that doesn't know how to behave like one, and to be freed from the arrogance that comes from being an empirical nation through an altruistic foreign policy in the service of humanity - freeing everyone from the tyranny of nazism, fascism, (and later, communism). It was an on-going process and a lot of lives lost, but we're here today, mostly deposed of all three.
See look at that purple prose and platitudes it is obviously the same guy.
the same cadence the same masturbatory love of his word selection.
The same fascistic pseudo-intellectual declamations on Empire.
the same stating of right-wing fringe ideas like they are commonly held facts.
He reads like a white nationalist cloaking his more noxious views in post-modernism.
MarketAndChurch = Perambulator = Troll
Although Market And Church is the station right before Market and Castro.
maybe he has not made the whole trip anyway he drips with dishonesty
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
02 Jun 2011, 3:35 pm
JakobVirgil wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
True, every nation is born in bloodshed. India is a great example, and they'd send millions of bodies back and forth between Pakistan and India filled with dead hindu's to the hindu state and dead muslims to the muslim state. The European Union is very similar to the Future USA. Public spending is now becoming almost an equal counter-weight to private spending, and the social paradigm continues on it's secular/leftist shift.
We didn't really learn too much about most of the atrocities you list because we were too busy learning about the evils of the House on Un-American activities Committee, McCarthyism, and the Hollywood black list and because it is a poor reflection on the collective will of humanity to confront evil.
I think America was the greatest influence on how the WWII turned out and managed to beat back the Nazi's and their Italian fascist supporters, but the Japanese as well. That does suck that the understanding of most germans who were fighting the soviets was because they did not want to take their orders from Moscow, only to have that be the case.
I think the "tyranny of our pride" he is referring to is our shame due from the fact that, we're an empire that doesn't know how to behave like one, and to be freed from the arrogance that comes from being an empirical nation through an altruistic foreign policy in the service of humanity - freeing everyone from the tyranny of nazism, fascism, (and later, communism). It was an on-going process and a lot of lives lost, but we're here today, mostly deposed of all three.
See look at that purple prose and platitudes it is obviously the same guy.
the same cadence the same masturbatory love of his word selection.
The same fascistic pseudo-intellectual declamations on Empire.
the same stating of right-wing fringe ideas like they are commonly held facts.
He reads like a white nationalist cloaking his more noxious views in post-modernism.
MarketAndChurch = Perambulator = Troll
Although Market And Church is the station right before Market and Castro.
maybe he has not made the whole trip anyway he drips with dishonesty
wp probably have ip logs, and can clear up the matter.
Market And Church is in the Castro, the safeway grocery store next to my place was known as the largest gay bar in SF. I lived there almost 2 years while studying fashion marketing and product development at Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising (FIDM) - another campus of the school that Lauren Conrad from the Hills attended.
I am not that person, but am surprised to see someone who does think similarly. Either way, I don't know if our positions are the same... Discovering AS, and WP a week after, I've been here only for a few months. I'm sure looking through the posts will reveal whether there's any continuity between the two of us.
I'm also not white, I am south pacific islander.
Are you complaining? It's not like you've ever dealt with the entirety of anything I've ever written. I'd like to assume from your knit-picking and what you choose to answer that either you have no reply for the majority of what I write or we for the most part agree.
how are my positions right-wing fringe? Most of my positions have been authored by Cato, AEI, Heritage, and Hoover institute, which are not right-wing fringe but rather right-wing mainstream. And how do I attempt to veil my views in post modernism (another dumb ism from Europe along with communism, fascism, nazism, deconstructionism, dadaism, etc)?
_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.
02 Jun 2011, 5:35 pm
In analyzing propaganda, refuting arguments is meaningless.
Because they are not based on Facts or Logic but Agenda.
and because frankly neither participant actually believes they are true.
the Modern American right is profoundly post-modern.
They know american history is indefensible but chose a politically useful narrative.
The Idea that truth is about choices and competing naratives is the definition of post-modernism
I thought you only read RCP and the WSJ and Vogue?
I guess whatever it takes.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
MarketAndChurch
Veteran
Joined: 3 Apr 2011
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,022
Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
02 Jun 2011, 6:47 pm
JakobVirgil wrote:
In analyzing propaganda, refuting arguments is meaningless.
Because they are not based on Facts or Logic but Agenda.
and because frankly neither participant actually believes they are true.
the Modern American right is profoundly post-modern.
They know american history is indefensible but chose a politically useful narrative.
The Idea that truth is about choices and competing naratives is the definition of post-modernism
I thought you only read RCP and the WSJ and Vogue?
I guess whatever it takes.
Because they are not based on Facts or Logic but Agenda.
and because frankly neither participant actually believes they are true.
the Modern American right is profoundly post-modern.
They know american history is indefensible but chose a politically useful narrative.
The Idea that truth is about choices and competing naratives is the definition of post-modernism
I thought you only read RCP and the WSJ and Vogue?
I guess whatever it takes.
Come on, that's a bit unfair. Ive lived 24 years and I didn't read rcp, wsj exclusively that entire time. I wasn't really introduced to WSJ or RCP either until 3 or 4 years ago. And at least be intellectually honest in that my viewpoints are no more of an agenda then the ones you hold, unless, as I've stated time and time again, you think objectivity rests soley on your side of the argument.
There's been a question as to where I get my views from, so its best I be entirely honest that over the last 4 years, the finest conservative scholars have guided my understanding of the world. But my time of intense scholarship ended 2 years ago, and now, I only read up on rcp, wsj, newgeography, and occasionally city-journal to keep up on current events.
I did get my start in conservative scholarship from those think tanks. So I can't always cite things off-hand. I can only make a case based on how my understanding was evolved by those sources. Hoover and Cato really guided my thoughts the most on foreign, domestic, and economic policy, but I must say that the carnegie endowment for international peace, Brookings Institute, and AEI also had members or papers whose opinions influenced my own.
Those sources have long been replaced by the ones I follow on WSJ or RealClearPolitics such as: Charles Krauthammer, Paul Krugman, Michael Barone, David Brooks, Malcolm Gladwell, Clive Crook, EJ Dionne, Thomas Friedman, Robert Samuelson, Fareed Zakaria, Christopher Hitchens, Rich Lowry, Jonah Goldberg, Jonathan Cohn, Joel Kotkin, Gail Collins, and the other regulars who come on RCP.
I don't know why I'm always on trial for the validity of my claims. I, unlike most of you, quick to admit when I make an error or bad judgement, or to reclarify my position so that it is better understood. I can also make a case for most of my positions, and will admit outright whether my opinion or reaction is emotional or not (most of the time, they aren't - they are based on beliefs and scholarship on whatever topic is being discussed.)
One doesn't really "read" vogue either, its more for enjoying spring, winter, or fall collections, seeing the brands you follows' most recent spread and catch up on the world of modeling, whose with which agency, who did what shoot, etc. If you want to "read" into fashion, WWD has all the juicy stuff. But I do frequent vogue, as I am a collector of that magazine.
_________________
It is not up to you to finish the task, nor are you free to desist from trying.
02 Jun 2011, 7:45 pm
MarketAndChurch wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
In analyzing propaganda, refuting arguments is meaningless.
Because they are not based on Facts or Logic but Agenda.
and because frankly neither participant actually believes they are true.
the Modern American right is profoundly post-modern.
They know american history is indefensible but chose a politically useful narrative.
The Idea that truth is about choices and competing naratives is the definition of post-modernism
I thought you only read RCP and the WSJ and Vogue?
I guess whatever it takes.
Because they are not based on Facts or Logic but Agenda.
and because frankly neither participant actually believes they are true.
the Modern American right is profoundly post-modern.
They know american history is indefensible but chose a politically useful narrative.
The Idea that truth is about choices and competing naratives is the definition of post-modernism
I thought you only read RCP and the WSJ and Vogue?
I guess whatever it takes.
Come on, that's a bit unfair. Ive lived 24 years and I didn't read rcp, wsj exclusively that entire time. I wasn't really introduced to WSJ or RCP either until 3 or 4 years ago. And at least be intellectually honest in that my viewpoints are no more of an agenda then the ones you hold, unless, as I've stated time and time again, you think objectivity rests soley on your side of the argument.
There's been a question as to where I get my views from, so its best I be entirely honest that over the last 4 years, the finest conservative scholars have guided my understanding of the world. But my time of intense scholarship ended 2 years ago, and now, I only read up on rcp, wsj, newgeography, and occasionally city-journal to keep up on current events.
I did get my start in conservative scholarship from those think tanks. So I can't always cite things off-hand. I can only make a case based on how my understanding was evolved by those sources. Hoover and Cato really guided my thoughts the most on foreign, domestic, and economic policy, but I must say that the carnegie endowment for international peace, Brookings Institute, and AEI also had members or papers whose opinions influenced my own.
Those sources have long been replaced by the ones I follow on WSJ or RealClearPolitics such as: Charles Krauthammer, Paul Krugman, Michael Barone, David Brooks, Malcolm Gladwell, Clive Crook, EJ Dionne, Thomas Friedman, Robert Samuelson, Fareed Zakaria, Christopher Hitchens, Rich Lowry, Jonah Goldberg, Jonathan Cohn, Joel Kotkin, Gail Collins, and the other regulars who come on RCP.
I don't know why I'm always on trial for the validity of my claims. I, unlike most of you, quick to admit when I make an error or bad judgement, or to reclarify my position so that it is better understood. I can also make a case for most of my positions, and will admit outright whether my opinion or reaction is emotional or not (most of the time, they aren't - they are based on beliefs and scholarship on whatever topic is being discussed.)
One doesn't really "read" vogue either, its more for enjoying spring, winter, or fall collections, seeing the brands you follows' most recent spread and catch up on the world of modeling, whose with which agency, who did what shoot, etc. If you want to "read" into fashion, WWD has all the juicy stuff. But I do frequent vogue, as I am a collector of that magazine.
there is no scholarship in think tanks they are full of hacks that could not make it in peer reviewed Journals because they are to partisan or dishonest.
Cato is "scholarship" bought and paid for by Charles Koch. (not conspiracy . . . he founded it)
Hoover is marginally better but is a relic of the moronic "Bulwark against Communism" that has twisted American political science and economics in the last century and is to well funded and isolated to realize the cold war is over.
(You know Condie Rice had a paper about how the fall of the soviet union was a red hoax)
Scholarship is scholarship there is not a separate truth for conservatives.
They praise survival of the fittest in the market place and cry "liberal bias" like babies when they can't hold their own in the University.
_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??
http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/
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