TheWilhelm Gustloff: A disaster history would like to forget
Sand wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
phil777 wrote:
Hal... If you don't know ruveyn's background after much time here, then you should know he needs to be taken with a grain of salt.... =/
He's an idiot. Trying so hard to sound tough since he hasnt fired a shot in a war in more than 60 years....
As much as I despise ruveyn's obvious unconcern for anybody but himself and his family it should be noted that those in political power from the USA which proclaims freedom and civil rights and refuses to properly prosecute the political thugs who approve of torture down to the smaller ugly fry like Mugabe and his corrupt like, all are in perfect accord with ruveyn.
Well Sand, governments(and the people who comprise them)are like that. They act in their self interest at the expense of other nations and peoples and even their own people and try to conceal it by promulgating democratic ideals. I honestly think that
ruveyn is just an ol' w*ker trying to look tough since most of what he says has made him laughing stock.
0_equals_true wrote:
Haliphron wrote:
I guess the only recourse would be to put pressure on Russia to owning up to what they did and issuing and official apology.
Hmm not likely to happen. One thing you should know is Russia doesn't aplogise for anything. Secondly it was meant to have gone through several reforms during the soviet era, so it has already divorced itself from previous baggage.
Say an independent sate such as Estonia want to take down Stalin statue. Putin personally gets involved. Organised gangs of ethic Russians start rioting, which is what happens.
Russia does not apologise and it doesn't take criticism.
The opportunity has passed with regards to coercing Russia into apologizing and demanding reparations. Germany very well COULD have exploited Russia's economic collapse in the 90s after the fall of the Soviet Union and I have a feeling even Gorbachev would've yielded under pressure from a reunified Germany as the USSR was collapsing during those final 2 years.
Haliphron wrote:
The opportunity has passed with regards to coercing Russia into apologizing and demanding reparations. Germany very well COULD have exploited Russia's economic collapse in the 90s after the fall of the Soviet Union and I have a feeling even Gorbachev would've yielded under pressure from a reunified Germany as the USSR was collapsing during those final 2 years.
From the position of the German government: Germany managed after 1949 (the start of the Federal Republic of Germany) to convince the rest of Europe (and the USA and Canada) to be a reliable and a bit boring democracy, not posing any danger to the peace in Europe. This was done not least by openly accepting the responsibility for the German actions in World War II (the difference to Japan is enormous).
It would be not in Germany's interest to jeopardise this political capital just to have a gesture from the Soviet Union or Russia.
Dussel wrote:
From the position of the German government: Germany managed after 1949 (the start of the Federal Republic of Germany) to convince the rest of Europe (and the USA and Canada) to be a reliable and a bit boring democracy, not posing any danger to the peace in Europe. This was done not least by openly accepting the responsibility for the German actions in World War II (the difference to Japan is enormous).
A river runs through the Japanese accounts of The Pacific War: De Nile.
The Japanese government and many of the people there have never accepted full responsibility for the dreadful things done in Korea, China and Manchuria. The Japanese don't even have to be sorry. They just have to openly acknowledge an historical fact.
In the U.S. there has never been an official apology to the various aboriginal nations (so-called Indian Tribes) for the near genocidal attacks on them and the broken treaties. But no one in the U.S. denies the facts. It is a matter of historical record. We killed the savages and stole their land, plain and simple.
ruveyn
ruveyn wrote:
Dussel wrote:
From the position of the German government: Germany managed after 1949 (the start of the Federal Republic of Germany) to convince the rest of Europe (and the USA and Canada) to be a reliable and a bit boring democracy, not posing any danger to the peace in Europe. This was done not least by openly accepting the responsibility for the German actions in World War II (the difference to Japan is enormous).
A river runs through the Japanese accounts of The Pacific War: De Nile.
The Japanese government and many of the people there have never accepted full responsibility for the dreadful things done in Korea, China and Manchuria. The Japanese don't even have to be sorry. They just have to openly acknowledge an historical fact.
In the U.S. there has never been an official apology to the various aboriginal nations (so-called Indian Tribes) for the near genocidal attacks on them and the broken treaties. But no one in the U.S. denies the facts. It is a matter of historical record. We killed the savages and stole their land, plain and simple.
ruveyn
As much as I reject your formula of responses to despicable international behaviors and various genocides I cannot fault you for being ignorant of these perpetual atrocities. For a recent analysis of more current US behavior in this matter Harold Pinter's Nobel speech (http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/lite ... ure-e.html) is worth reading.
CanyonWind
Veteran
Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Age: 73
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,656
Location: West of the Great Divide
Haliphron wrote:
Russia is STILL much weaker than the US and feels quite threatened by NATO expansion in terms of the Missile Defense Shield.
Aww...They're just being paranoid. Don't you remember what Condi Rice said? She insisted that the Missile defenses were only there to protect Poland from missile attacks by "rogue states like Iran."
I'm still trying to figure out why Iran would want to shoot missiles at Poland.
_________________
They murdered boys in Mississippi. They shot Medgar in the back.
Did you say that wasn't proper? Did you march out on the track?
You were quiet, just like mice. And now you say that we're not nice.
Well thank you buddy for your advice...
-Malvina
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