2nd Peter 3:1-9

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Relaxed my role as a Christian??? I don't when that was supposed to be. I haven't been arguing as much until recently though, so that may be what you're referring to, is it?

"Jesus made mars", only in the since that:

1) God is the creator of everything in the set of the Heavens and the Earth.
2) All members of the Trinity are God.
3) Jesus is a member of the Trinity (the Son).
4) The planet Mars is a member of the set of the Heavens.
5) Thus Jesus, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit, also created the planet Mars.

"so there can only be 1 true god"

Yes, and by the law of non-contradiction, the Judeo-Christian God can't be the same as Allah. While it is true that many individual Christians have been antisemitic, the New Testament itself has no such underpinnings. I remember in Romans, Paul writing about his love for his people and how he wants them to be saved even. Hardly a "burn in hell" sentiment.

parakeet buddy i hope you didnt change your avatar because i said mars, and jesus. in the same sentence but reguardless i understand you christians on here, especially in this forum feel persecuted. i admire such a belief system and really. i dont think the god of the bible and allah are the same, i remember some diehard christian relaxing there position abit here, maybe it wasnt you so please accept my appology if it wasnt. anyways, basically what your telling me is god did make mars. and maybe your right, god helps out any country helping Israel

cool. and im fine with that because i think almost everyone here knows my position on religion. anyways, i do have to ask you this question though bird buddy. did jesus hate the romans? or was it his followers?

whose face was on the coin? jesus asked, emperor blah blah bah. then give to what is ceasor what belongs to ceasor, and god what belongs to god because god sets up governments on earths.

right ?

Actually, the reason I changed avatars was that my temporary fixation with C.S. Lewis' book Out Of The Silent Planet, where Mars was called Malacandra and Earth Thulcandra ("the silent planet"), had been over for some time. I just overhauled my profile and I hadn't read your previous post before I finished. I have been bored today, as well as angry at Facebook. My account there has been disabled because I added too many friends in a given time. So, I've had a lot more free time to update things.

My current fixation is about the Roman empire, as well as the games Rome: Total War and Glory Of The Roman Empire, and also, in continuation, Latin again, though I need to figure where to restart in the Wheelock's textbook. Their military was cool, hence the avatar I adapted from wikimedia.

"did Jesus hate the Romans? or was it his followers?"

I don't know what is being referred to about the Romans, there was general dislike of people who collected tax for Rome, and also the disciples thought that Jesus was going to restore the kingdom of Israel in their life, as they said in Acts:

So when they had come together, they asked him, "Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?" Acts 1:6 ESV


But the only time I remember Jesus getting ticked off at people in general was concerning the cities where He performed miracles and the people still were rejecting him:

Matthew 11:20-24 KJV
20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: 21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. 23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

I don't recall if the disciples said anything to that effect, other than asking if the kingdom of Israel were to be restored, and even then isn't against Rome, but just Roman rule over the province of Judea.


"whose face was on the coin? jesus asked, emperor blah blah bah. then give to what as ceasor what belongs to ceasor, and god what belongs to god because god sets up governments on earths. right ?"


Matthew 22:17-21 is applicable to authority in general as Peter later wrote, but yes, I think, about Rome in particular as it was the legs of iron in the Daniel chapter 2 prophecy. The disciples may have thought that Rome was also the feet of that prophecy, such as in Daniel 2:34-35, 44-45. In the prophecy of Daniel 2:31-45, the five kingdoms, in chronological order are

Head of gold: Babylon.
Chest and arms of silver: Medio-Persia
Belly and thighs of bronze: Greece and Macedon
Legs of Iron: Rome
Feet of Iron and Clay: most commentators say it's the nations of Europe succeeding Rome. I think America may fit the bill, but that is only my opinion.

the only time i remember jesus getting mad at anybody was when the people, JEWS, were selling their shiznit in the temple. like a swapmeet oh damn was he irrate. (and for good reason) he was so pissed he beat them up & then showed some fools the front door

Last edited by richardbenson on 07 May 2009, 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The ethnicity of the merchants was of no importance, but what they were doing in the court of the Temple was of paramount importance. If He were angry about them being Jewish (of which the ethnicity may not be Jewish as the court they were using was the court of the gentiles and not the inner court), then he would have to be angry that He was also, as well as Paul, and Nicodemus.

i have a hard time believing gentiles were allowed to sell anything in a jewish temple

Not inside the Temple, but in the outer court (the Court Of The Gentiles)
also known as the Atrium Gentium in this picture:

so where did jesus start first? im guessing on the outside since thats naturally when your going to come from, he thew those fools out and then went in, in the inner courts and really got pissed. because this is the most holy of holy ies (where god is) and started beating jews. am i right?

your own verse contradicts you.

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple"

so the gentile merchants remain unharmless

There would be no merchants in the inner court, because only descendants of Jacob could go in there, and the purpose of the money lending is to exchange foreign currency into the shekel for the Temple. Only certain priests, Cohens, could go inside the building of the temple, and only the high priest, Cohen HaGadol, could go into the Holy of Holies. The use of the word "temple" in the verse relies on prior knowledge of which parts are accessible, and thereby refers to the complex and not the building.

you and i are both autistic, this is obvious. rather than give you some half assed answer i'd rather reaserch it, think about it and then answer..

but im shure your wrong

Well, it is completely without reference to the text. Augustine took the text as an allegory rather than something to be treated literally.

The reformers were strongly Biblicist, even to the point of anti-rationalist.


Yes, that is true. Good point, I had forgotten that.


Hmm... I have my doubts. Usually belief pulls itself, and most scientists consider a Young Earth to be fully discredited. Not to outright slam you at all that is


I don't think that this part of Peter is prophetic though in naming a specific belief, but rather is providing a reference belief to affirm this belief and place it against other beliefs. I don't think more is necessary to make it this call, particularly given that all times have had people who were not Christian and thus rejected the Christian creation belief, so Peter's comment seems odd if you bestow it special purpose.


We don't need to get into this mess.

The Temple in Jesus' time consisted of numerous "courts" that were open to different groups of people for the purpose of sightseeing, socializing, and, of course, taking part in rituals. Gentiles were allowed to visit the outer plaza and mill about, just as non-Christian tourists are invited to tour cathedrals today. Pagans were warned away from entering the areas restricted to Jews by means of inscriptions engraved on a low balustrade called the soreg. Further in, past the soreg, there was a court where all Jewish people were permitted to meet, then a smaller court restricted to Jewish men, then a still smaller court restricted to priests, then finally the sanctuary itself where the ark of the Covenant was kept.

so its inconclusive. who knows if jesus beat anyone on the outside

im shure, however jesus beat those a little bit harder that knew the law rather than those who didnt

Quite so, I recently got into this thread, the forum to say exactly, which I found really interesting (AG and iamnotaparakeet arguments) few and same members posting their usual rants, it feels somehow the discussion being disrupted by incoherent or meaningless arguments relating the the issue I might say, in the sequence in this thread, but oh well....

I don't think I would have something new to really offer, just that there are interesting points, and I also see the problem with the 2 Peter 3:8 interpretation relating to creation given verse 9, which could be said to indicate that more than one thousand years will happen before the second comming, which would lead to the question of that being prophetized, which is an interesting observation.

oh shut up. you have a mouse to click off of, to click off you know

..to not reply

...dare i say idiots?