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DW_a_mom
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25 Apr 2011, 4:15 pm

skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I've seen a lot more self-righteousness in your posts in this thread than effort at bridge building or true discourse.


The self-righteousness is a means of deflecting their own. The rhetoric is always the same and the conversation ends quickly "it's a person, it's a life, abortion is murder". There's no amount of dancing around that'll change that kind of broken mind. There is no comprehension, there's only rhetorical battle and I know that mine has real-life implications while theirs is much more vague and has no implicit or immediate impact.


ryan93 made the argument that I've seen work the best, to really transfer the conversation from "abortion is murder" to "what is life" and is your definition based solely in faith (wonderful, but not something we can legislate), in science (a pretty good foundation for legislation), or concensus (excellent foundation for legislation)?

But ... there are definitely those in the group with whom you can't talk at all. Stay away from those and remember that is a subset.


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25 Apr 2011, 4:16 pm

leejosepho wrote:
LovebirdsFlying wrote:
I notice everybody is so busy hating each other here that my previous post has been completely ignored. How am I supposed to feel about that?

You were not really being ignored -- we just had a real-life, on-topic tiff of some kind going on! :wink:

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
I am a Christian, and even if I wanted to, I cannot hide that because it just comes out. When I state my beliefs, I mean for it to be stating MY beliefs, not telling others what THEIR beliefs should be. It is not my job to convert you. And I don't call other people names like heathen, etc.

Do I get bashed just for being a Christian? Yes, although less often than others who do come in with "You're going to hell because you don't believe...." Is this confined to Wrong Planet and its PPR section? Heck no. It's all over the internet.

You bet, and seeing you are relatively new here ...

Welcome to WP!

Things occasionally do get a bit hot over here in PPR, but it looks to me like you will do just fine!


Thank you for that. Reading the posts that follow yours, it's easy to see that some people still just want to hate, no matter what. I have been wondering if there is any place on the internet where I can be safe from attacks for believing something, and since even specifically Christian websites are not immune, I am not sure there is such a place.


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DW_a_mom
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25 Apr 2011, 4:17 pm

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
Blind post. Sorry, not going to read thoroughly through 20 pages.

I am a Christian, and even if I wanted to, I cannot hide that because it just comes out. When I state my beliefs, I mean for it to be stating MY beliefs, not telling others what THEIR beliefs should be. It is not my job to convert you. And I don't call other people names like heathen, etc.

Do I get bashed just for being a Christian? Yes, although less often than others who do come in with "You're going to hell because you don't believe...." Is this confined to Wrong Planet and its PPR section? Heck no. It's all over the internet.


Totally agree with the first paragraph. Different experience on the second ... but, then again, we may not travel the same types of places when we leave here ;)


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leejosepho
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25 Apr 2011, 4:17 pm

skafather84 wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Okay. You're wrong and irrational. No colorful expressions, just dry and straight forward.

Oh now, come on! DW_a_mom is far from being anything like that!

What is your issue there?

Credit to an invisible being = irrationality. Saying that some deity exists = wrong.

Well then, just shove all that whatever-it-is over toward me rather that to her since she and I believe and say about the same!

skafather84 wrote:
I guess I could pare down irrationality considering the end result is still being wrong and having your judgment subject to others and having your own thoughts corrupted by an irrational conclusion at various points.

I am having difficulty paring that down, but yes, we all do tend to be influenced by others ... but that does not mean we change each other's thinking.

skafather84 wrote:
As to what my issue is...I have a few guesses but that's mostly personal.

I certainly did not mean to be prying ... 8)


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DW_a_mom
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25 Apr 2011, 4:18 pm

TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I have not called into question your ability to comprehend, or called you an ape. Yet you just did both to me. Indirectly, but done all the same.


No insult intended but cladistically speaking, all humans ARE apes but not all apes are humans. Humans are basically a third species of chimpanzee. That is what nature shows us, like it or not.

Some of the strongest evidence is genetic. The fossils aren't just in the rocks. There are "fossils" in our genes too. Look up Human Chromosome 2 and be amazed. It is practically a smoking gun showing our very close kinship to chimps and the other great apes, because it is clearly two ape chromosomes fused together end to end. The presence of endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes at the same locations in the DNA of humans and chimps is yet more proof.

And then there is the fossil record. Australopithecus Afarensis is nearly perfectly intermediate between ape and human in several skeletal features. Some of these transitional fossils are so transitional that different creationists will argue whether they are fully ape or fully human. There are at least a dozen transitional species from the past five or six million years that show a clear progression from more ape-like to more human-like features. Now some of these may not be direct ancestors, maybe none of those yet discovered are direct ancestors, but they are at the very least cousins to us.


Lol but that isn't what he meant, is it?

Love your post, though :)


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DW_a_mom
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25 Apr 2011, 4:20 pm

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
Sorry, I guess I'm just being squeezed out. Again.


Don't feel that way. I'm pages behind. Takes a while to get to everything.

And ... this is the craziest, hottest forum here. Much nicer elsewhere. Kind of depends on what you want.


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leejosepho
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25 Apr 2011, 4:20 pm

ryan93 wrote:
Boat! Therefore Christianity!

Nah, not unless it had a cross and a steeple.


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LovebirdsFlying
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25 Apr 2011, 4:21 pm

skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:

But I still have to live amongst these apes worshiping their sun gods and worshiping their own inability to comprehend.


I find this offensive.


Guess what I find offensive.


I have not called into question your ability to comprehend, or called you an ape. Yet you just did both to me. Indirectly, but done all the same.

This thread is about why anyone thinks that should be allowed on Wrong Planet. It should not be. Find another way to express yourself.


Okay. You're wrong and irrational. No colorful expressions, just dry and straight forward.


Saying that violates the TOS.

Find another way to express yourself. Again.

Get my point?


Okay. You're wrong.

Am I there yet?


How about, "I disagree." And I'll even allow for, "to me, faith is irrational." Make it about you, not about me, and I'm happy.


You're not alone. Every theist is wrong and irrational.


How is this not STILL a TOS violation? The poster has been told he can disagree without saying "wrong," and asked by a moderator to refrain, but still has to get his digs in. And has now insulted me as well, since I believe.


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Last edited by LovebirdsFlying on 25 Apr 2011, 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Apr 2011, 4:21 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
TheBicyclingGuitarist wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
I have not called into question your ability to comprehend, or called you an ape. Yet you just did both to me. Indirectly, but done all the same.


No insult intended but cladistically speaking, all humans ARE apes but not all apes are humans. Humans are basically a third species of chimpanzee. That is what nature shows us, like it or not.

Some of the strongest evidence is genetic. The fossils aren't just in the rocks. There are "fossils" in our genes too. Look up Human Chromosome 2 and be amazed. It is practically a smoking gun showing our very close kinship to chimps and the other great apes, because it is clearly two ape chromosomes fused together end to end. The presence of endogenous retroviruses and pseudogenes at the same locations in the DNA of humans and chimps is yet more proof.

And then there is the fossil record. Australopithecus Afarensis is nearly perfectly intermediate between ape and human in several skeletal features. Some of these transitional fossils are so transitional that different creationists will argue whether they are fully ape or fully human. There are at least a dozen transitional species from the past five or six million years that show a clear progression from more ape-like to more human-like features. Now some of these may not be direct ancestors, maybe none of those yet discovered are direct ancestors, but they are at the very least cousins to us.


Lol but that isn't what he meant, is it?

Love your post, though :)
He meant that everyone who disagrees with him is an ape and no one is worthy of the high horse he rides on.

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
How is this not STILL a TOS violation? The poster has been told he can disagree without saying "wrong," and asked by a moderator to refrain, but still has to get his digs in. And has now insulted me as well, since I believe.
I'm not surprised, he's severely lacking in the maturity department.



Last edited by AceOfSpades on 25 Apr 2011, 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Inuyasha
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25 Apr 2011, 4:23 pm

ryan93 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
if tomorrow remnants of Noah's Ark were discovered


How would you prove that it's Noah's ark and not just some random piece of scrapwood from the same time period? Do you think they'll discover a boat that fits the exact specifications or maybe find that one piece of wood that says "Noah's Ark" on it??


As I said, individuals would then be claiming it was something else, anything to claim the Bible isn't true. Face it Atheists don't have much in the way of objectivity either.


No, what I'm saying is "how do you come to the conclusion that it's Noah's ark?"

Do you have any clue how impossible it would be to prove it? Do you know how stupid you sound right now?

Prove to me it's Noah's boat instead of Moab's or Sargon's or Gilgamesh's. Do you understand this at all??


If I remember correctly Gilgamesh was born after the great flood.


The names were more just generic ancient names, not specific examples (ie, some ancient Joe Schmoe). So, again, how do you prove that it is specifically the boat of one person who was named 'Noah' and was written about in the bible? I would assume that first, Noah wasn't the only one with that name and second, more boats existed then than just that one. What is your methodology to determine that it is "Noah's ark".


How many extremely large boats have you heard of that would be sitting on a mountain?


Boat! Therefore Christianity!


I'm making a point that if we find remnents of an ark that is about the size of a cruise ship that is a pretty good indication. Have you heard of any other ancient boats of that size? In order to make that assumption it would depend on how much of it is still intact, depending on the mountain the ark could be fairly well preserved. I'm just making the point that Noah's Ark isn't going to have the name Noah's Ark on the side of it.



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25 Apr 2011, 4:24 pm

DW_a_mom wrote:
LovebirdsFlying wrote:
Sorry, I guess I'm just being squeezed out. Again.


Don't feel that way. I'm pages behind. Takes a while to get to everything.

And ... this is the craziest, hottest forum here. Much nicer elsewhere. Kind of depends on what you want.


Thank you. It was hard not to flash back to being the new kid in school, and having it even harder (AS makes it hard enough) to make friends because all the groups are already formed. But I'll get by. :)


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leejosepho
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25 Apr 2011, 4:25 pm

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
I have been wondering if there is any place on the internet where I can be safe from attacks for believing something, and since even specifically Christian websites are not immune, I am not sure there is such a place.

You are likely correct there. I have been banned even from a couple of Christians sites ... but then one of them shut down altogether shortly after that ... and I had even warned the site owner about that kind of possibility prior to things even heating up all that much.

Oh well.


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DW_a_mom
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25 Apr 2011, 4:26 pm

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
DW_a_mom wrote:
skafather84 wrote:

But I still have to live amongst these apes worshiping their sun gods and worshiping their own inability to comprehend.


I find this offensive.


Guess what I find offensive.


I have not called into question your ability to comprehend, or called you an ape. Yet you just did both to me. Indirectly, but done all the same.

This thread is about why anyone thinks that should be allowed on Wrong Planet. It should not be. Find another way to express yourself.


Okay. You're wrong and irrational. No colorful expressions, just dry and straight forward.


Saying that violates the TOS.

Find another way to express yourself. Again.

Get my point?


Okay. You're wrong.

Am I there yet?


How about, "I disagree." And I'll even allow for, "to me, faith is irrational." Make it about you, not about me, and I'm happy.


You're not alone. Every theist is wrong and irrational.


How is this not STILL a TOS violation? The poster has been told he can disagree without saying "wrong," and asked by a moderator to refrain, but still has to get his digs in. And has now insulted me as well, since I believe.


Yes, what he wrote is a TOS violation.

Work on it, Skafather. Some opinions must be colored before posting, that is how it is.


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leejosepho
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25 Apr 2011, 4:30 pm

LovebirdsFlying wrote:
The poster has been told he can disagree without saying "wrong," and asked by a moderator to refrain, but still has to get his digs in. And has now insulted me as well, since I believe.

Oh, I suspect we are all just waiting for his keyboard buffer to clear ...


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ryan93
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25 Apr 2011, 4:42 pm

Quote:
I'm making a point that if we find remnents of an ark that is about the size of a cruise ship that is a pretty good indication. Have you heard of any other ancient boats of that size? In order to make that assumption it would depend on how much of it is still intact, depending on the mountain the ark could be fairly well preserved. I'm just making the point that Noah's Ark isn't going to have the name Noah's Ark on the side of it.


I doubt there is a giant ship at all, but post a link to the research paper if you have one.

Quote:
I have been wondering if there is any place on the internet where I can be safe from attacks for believing something, and since even specifically Christian websites are not immune, I am not sure there is such a place


Most people avoid attacking the person behind a belief, but attack the belief. I think it is a fair system.

Quote:
ryan93 made the argument that I've seen work the best, to really transfer the conversation from "abortion is murder" to "what is life" and is your definition based solely in faith (wonderful, but not something we can legislate), in science (a pretty good foundation for legislation), or concensus (excellent foundation for legislation)?


I agree with your post, except that I think the question is not what is life (a system that maintains a thermodynamic disequilibrium through catabolic and anabolic energy transformation, employs molecular segregation and has the potential to evolve through natural selection, IMO), but at what point does life get human rights (consciousness being a significant indicator).


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25 Apr 2011, 5:28 pm

Well don't call it PP, that would be......just awkward :oops: :lol: 8O :roll: :shameonyou:

I agree though, yet, it is pretty much limited to the PRP forum, people on other forums are much nicer.