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The US Government Shut-Down - Whom to Blame

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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2013, 10:21 am

MCalavera wrote:
eric76 wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
eric76 wrote:
It would probably surprise you to learn that there have been more government shutdowns when the President was a Republican and the Republicans had a majority in the Senate then there have been when the President was a Democrat. If you aren't a hypocrite, then those Democrats during those shutdowns (except for one where the disagreement was between a Republican President and the Senate with a Republican majority) must have been committing some kind of treason in your eyes.

I draw the line at shutting down government, it is not good when anybody does it. it should be off-limits and considered an act akin to sedition.


Exactly right. Governments should serve the people, not the other way around. Shutdowns like this show tha some government officials aren't there to serve the people but heir own interests.


Like the administration doing their best to make the shutdown as miserable as possible for the citizens?


Father: "John, you're the one who hit your brother because he refused to clean your own room for you."

John: "But, dad, he made me miserable enough to do it and he's just making it worse by continuing to not do what I tell him to do."

Father: One thing you gotta learn is you can't always have your way and acting like an infant isn't going to help your cause.
John: But dad *sniffle sniffle* we both know I'm the only one who matters no one else to hell with bro he's dead to me *whimper whimper*
Father: GROW THE F*** UP!! !!



auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 1:37 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
One thing that's certain. If everybody who hates this shut down got together and decided to vote out all the ones responsible for it and actually followed up and did it, not just talk about it only to forget later, politicians would never resort to these tactics. They only do it because they know they can get away with it. It's their way of mocking each and every one of us because they know no one will vote them out for doing this. They deserve to be voted out so just vote them out already. If we did this, they would never ever risk pulling this bs ever again. It wouldn't be worth their careers. You must show them how they are required to behave and not settle for nonsense from them. They have the public pegged as weak and stupid this is how they show their contempt.

problem with that is the gerrymandered districts these jokers live in, insulate them from any such reprisals at the voting booth. these guy are smug in the sure knowledge they can do anything their crazy base tells them to do, with no personal repercussions whatsoever. the problem is the VOTERS who keep voting these guys in!



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12 Oct 2013, 1:49 pm

http://www.policymic.com/articles/67045 ... -re-pissed


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GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 3:12 pm

SOURCE<--click

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Republican lawmakers are voicing increasing skepticism about dire warnings that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in catastrophic default.

...

And Rep. Ted Yoho, R-Fla., even argues that reaching the debt limit could help the economy, by showing the world the U.S. is serious about its debt problem. "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," he told The Washington Post Monday.





It's guys like this that you need to worry about.

:?


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simon_says
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12 Oct 2013, 3:54 pm

Yes, a rabble rousing cow doctor knows more than economists and business leaders. Welcome to America. Please take this complimentary hammer and strike yourself until your IQ reaches approved levels.



eric76
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12 Oct 2013, 4:06 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
SOURCE<--click

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Republican lawmakers are voicing increasing skepticism about dire warnings that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in catastrophic default.

...

And Rep. Ted Yoho, R-Fla., even argues that reaching the debt limit could help the economy, by showing the world the U.S. is serious about its debt problem. "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," he told The Washington Post Monday.





It's guys like this that you need to worry about.

:?


If we were to default on the debt payments, it would not be forced upon us by the Tea Party Republicans but would come about as a conscious decision by President Obama to do maximal damage to the country as a punishment for not giving him everything he wants.



simon_says
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12 Oct 2013, 4:12 pm

eric76 wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
SOURCE<--click

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Republican lawmakers are voicing increasing skepticism about dire warnings that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in catastrophic default.

...

And Rep. Ted Yoho, R-Fla., even argues that reaching the debt limit could help the economy, by showing the world the U.S. is serious about its debt problem. "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," he told The Washington Post Monday.





It's guys like this that you need to worry about.

:?


If we were to default on the debt payments, it would not be forced upon us by the Tea Party Republicans but would come about as a conscious decision by President Obama to do maximal damage to the country as a punishment for not giving him everything he wants.


:lol: How does that even make sense?

Obama has offered to deal on a grand bargain over and over and over. To the chagrin of Democrats. The tea party will not negotiate with him and don't want the relatively normal members of the GOP to either. They don't want a "bargain" they want their demands met. What's most important to them is that Obama get nothing.

That's why they are taking hostages and threatening the US economy.



eric76
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12 Oct 2013, 4:21 pm

simon_says wrote:
eric76 wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
SOURCE<--click

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Republican lawmakers are voicing increasing skepticism about dire warnings that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in catastrophic default.

...

And Rep. Ted Yoho, R-Fla., even argues that reaching the debt limit could help the economy, by showing the world the U.S. is serious about its debt problem. "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," he told The Washington Post Monday.





It's guys like this that you need to worry about.

:?


If we were to default on the debt payments, it would not be forced upon us by the Tea Party Republicans but would come about as a conscious decision by President Obama to do maximal damage to the country as a punishment for not giving him everything he wants.


:lol: How does that even make sense?

Obama has offered to deal on a grand bargain over and over and over. To the chagrin of Democrats. The tea party will not negotiate with him and don't want the relatively normal members of the GOP to either. They don't want a "bargain" they want their demands met. What's most important to them is that Obama get nothing.

That's why they are taking hostages and threatening the US economy.


Are we talking about the same shutdown in the same year with the same President and the same Congress?

From the reports I've seen, the Republicans are dismayed that the President refuses to negotiate unless they first give him everything he wants.



simon_says
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12 Oct 2013, 4:39 pm

Quote:
Are we talking about the same shutdown in the same year with the same President and the same Congress?

From the reports I've seen, the Republicans are dismayed that the President refuses to negotiate unless they first give him everything he want


You are confusing messaging with reality.

Obama has said he won't negotiate on the debt ceiling because it sets a dangerous precedent. Anyone can use it to make hostage demands. I think he's right. It's crazy. But he's been trying to get a deal with them for years. Even Republican Peter King has noted it and said that normally when people are offered a 10-1 deal on spending cuts to revenue (via closing tax loopholes), they are happy. But the tea baggers won't accept it. They want 100% of what they want.

So having failed to get that in negotiations they are resorting to threats against the US economy. It's very clear. Which is why they are collapsing in the polls.



Last edited by simon_says on 12 Oct 2013, 4:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LKL
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12 Oct 2013, 4:40 pm

ORLY?
Where do you get your "reports"?
edit: this was in response to eric76, but a few others got in ahead of me.



Last edited by LKL on 12 Oct 2013, 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2013, 4:50 pm

auntblabby wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
One thing that's certain. If everybody who hates this shut down got together and decided to vote out all the ones responsible for it and actually followed up and did it, not just talk about it only to forget later, politicians would never resort to these tactics. They only do it because they know they can get away with it. It's their way of mocking each and every one of us because they know no one will vote them out for doing this. They deserve to be voted out so just vote them out already. If we did this, they would never ever risk pulling this bs ever again. It wouldn't be worth their careers. You must show them how they are required to behave and not settle for nonsense from them. They have the public pegged as weak and stupid this is how they show their contempt.

problem with that is the gerrymandered districts these jokers live in, insulate them from any such reprisals at the voting booth. these guy are smug in the sure knowledge they can do anything their crazy base tells them to do, with no personal repercussions whatsoever. the problem is the VOTERS who keep voting these guys in!

That's why they should vote all the Republicans out, even the moderates. If they do that one or two TP ones that are left won't matter much. Just vote them all out and maybe they will learn find another way to figure things out. This is unacceptable.



auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 5:01 pm

eric76 wrote:
If we were to default on the debt payments, it would not be forced upon us by the Tea Party Republicans but would come about as a conscious decision by President Obama to do maximal damage to the country as a punishment for not giving him everything he wants.

horsepuckey. it is not just what he wants but what the people who ELECTED HIM WANT as well! this is ALL ABOUT GOPTP PUNISHING Obama voters and to hell with the collateral damage- after singlehandedly causing the catastrophe, the TP will run away and cry "the devil* take the hindmost."

*what the GOPTP considers us 99%ers



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12 Oct 2013, 5:08 pm

eric76 wrote:
GoonSquad wrote:
SOURCE<--click

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Republican lawmakers are voicing increasing skepticism about dire warnings that failing to raise the debt ceiling would result in catastrophic default.

...

And Rep. Ted Yoho, R-Fla., even argues that reaching the debt limit could help the economy, by showing the world the U.S. is serious about its debt problem. "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," he told The Washington Post Monday.





It's guys like this that you need to worry about.

:?


If we were to default on the debt payments, it would not be forced upon us by the Tea Party Republicans but would come about as a conscious decision by President Obama to do maximal damage to the country as a punishment for not giving him everything he wants.


I seriously think you're mistaking the real President Obama for the caricature the tea party and Republicans had invented even prior to his first election. And I'll remind you, it was the right wing of the GOP who had shut down the government in the first place in order to vindictively rob Obama of his most famous achievement, the Affordable Care Act. If anything, the tea partiers are the ones who come across as the ones who would callously destroy the economy for not getting what they want.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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12 Oct 2013, 5:29 pm

Those Obamacare demands have gone real quiet. Arch-conservative Grover Norquist says Ted Cruz pushed the House into traffic and walked away. And obviously John McCain and other party elders think it's nuts.



auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 5:33 pm

what they have done is unforgivable.



LKL
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12 Oct 2013, 6:11 pm

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/10/1 ... ail=email#