War in Ukraine: both sides are wrong

Post Reply New Topic

How about this:

viewtopic.php?t=73832

Well, apparently, you're not really interested in discussing quite a rich history of Dr Kissinger's foreign policy ups and downs if this was the only part of my message you responded to.

Kissinger is too crafty for his own good.

A very intelligent man with questionable morals.

He’s close to 100 years old.

Questionable morals are bad long-term.
I recently stomped on this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/com ... r_forgets/
A panel illustrating why South Asians are not really enthusiastic about helping the West...
Dr Kissinger took a very active part in the US not-even-condemn policy.

Nothing, however, is stated about Multiposting to 2 individual, distinct (or they would have been merged) topics of discussion...



My original post was merely providing additional, relevent information related to the subject under discussion for people to consider.

The reason behind my post was the suggestion contained within the article that finding peace was preferable to continued conflict in this region (and, in my view, in all regions around the world).

It quickly became apparent, however, that some people were not interested in discussing the preferability (or otherwise) for peace over war (the subject of the article), instead preferring to launch into "ad hominem" attacks targetting the individual who had suggested that "peace, not war" was what should be aimed towards, and I had (and still have) no desire to enter (willingly or otherwise) into such a conversation.

The "preferability of peace over war" was discussed back in 1938 by Chamberlain. Buying peace by giving someone else's territory to an agressor results only with the agressor demanding more - and the effect is more war later.

It is easy to see who the Russia sympathisers and Putin propagandists are in this thread.

Where? I haven't read the whole thread, but there haven't been any such people that I have noticed in what I have seen.

I have seen a few who were uncritical\unthinking supporters\appologists\propogandists of Mr Zelinsky and his government\government's actions, but none who were uncritical supporters\appologists\propogandists of Mr Putin or his government\government's actions.

My concern is with the 1.6 million Ukrainians who have been internally displaced along with the over 1 million who had fled abroad as of March 2016 (Numbers taken from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas), as well as those civilians who are still suffering\displaced\fled abroard in the time since these numbers were compiled, and have no choice but to wait for conflict in their former "homeland" to cease (whether by agreement between both sides, or through the intervention of some neutral 3rd party such as the UN) so that they can try and return and rebuild their homes and communities. Strangely most people are more concerned with "point scoring" for their side and have no concern for these innocent people, nor desire to look out for what they need (why would they care about the lowly peasants who can do nothing for them\their image when they can instead bask in the reflect glory of their chosen leader).

It's disappointing that so many people unthinkingly pick a side and blindly agree with everything it says\does (as though their side can do no "wrong" and everyone not on it can do no "right"), attacking anyone with concern for the innocent people being affected for many years leading up and continuing into the current time and labelling them as "sympathisers" or "propagandists" for the "other side", showing no interest\concern for those innocent people (who may support either, or neither, side) and their lives...

I happen to have met some of them - including a group that fled because the separatists threatned them with death. I listened to their stories. I do care for them. Personally. I'm afraid you may be projecting.
I'm so active in this topic and gave up moderating it exactly because it's about people I personally know and care for. And I know what risks they are facing if the West again gives them up for the sake of better relations with Russia. Poland has been there, too. Never again.

Us, East Europeans, must right now explain to the whole world what it's all about. Why Ukraine is fighting. Why little Estonia is helping them with 1/3 of their whole military budget, almost 1% of GDP. Why Finland and Sweden are applying for NATO membership.
It's not really complicated but Kremlin propaganda keeps trying to make it so.

Putin is not Sadam Hussein. He actually has WMDs. So caution is going to be required. That doesn't mean individuals are pro-Putin?

Uncalled for.

I think hypocrisy has been a feature of international politics forever. That in no way justifies what Putin is doing but it does give him a finger to point at the U.S. given that country's history of interfering in the governments of other countries, trying to overthrow regimes it doesn't like or that don't suit the policy of pillaging wealth from those countries etc. And the same applies to every colonial power that has ever existed. I don't like humanity and its machinations in general and one upside I like about being Aspie is that I was never able to have a relationship resulting in children who now have to live in a burning, nuclear-armed, over=populated and resource-deprived world. I was extremely lucky to have been born at a time in history, of the parents I was and at a planetary location where I had a care-free and relatively enjoyable childhood, Aspie difficulties aside (which I was unaware of at the time).