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How can anyone with AS be a conservative?

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Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2011, 9:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Well, Medicaid and Medicare work just fine, despite the occasional fraud and red tape.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Fraudulent billing in endemic to the system. The system begs to be defrauded and preventative measures just run up the costs.

The only inherently honest system is fee for service. As soon as an insurance company becomes involved the costs shoot up dramatically.

ruveyn


Despite that, my point was, those programs work pretty efficiently. And so should nationalized medicine.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Orwell
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18 Aug 2011, 11:18 pm

marshall wrote:
I could reply here, but from now on I'm just going to ignore posts of yours that are so ridiculous as to not merit a response. It should be better for my own mental health.

So you're ignoring Inuyasha entirely now?


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Inuyasha
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18 Aug 2011, 11:20 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
marshall wrote:
The thing is such "high and lofty ideals" as universal healthcare works just fine in other countries who are no more "bankrupt" financially than we are. In any case, I'd rather work to make this country better than move somewhere else. If all the non-right-wingers moved out of this country things would really go to crap. I'm not going to live to see that happen.


Good, then like I said, move there and experience how well they actually work. Don't get me wrong, I think our system sucks too, but so does theirs with the whole system of bureaucracies, infinite waiting while dying, absurd policies that don't allow you to get both privatized and public health which means if the public healthcare system doesn't allow you to have a treatment you need and you get it through private healthcare you then forfeit your access to public health services in total. Everything sucks everywhere, and you yet are willing to think in such myopic terms. Things don't work just fine in places you've never been to, and if you had to be within such systems you'd have disillusionment set in just like with any other thing that we build up in our minds before we see them realized.


Opinion after opinion, poll after poll, shows that people are on the whole more satisfied with their healthcare in countries with universal coverage. Of course things aren't perfect anywhere, but people overwhelmingly agree that their system sucks less than the American system. Are you going to say they are liars? Do you think they are being coerced by their government into saying they like their system better than the private American system? Come on, logic please?


I'm going to say the people conducting the polls were liars, or at very least weren't using good sampling techniques.
Riiight anything that contradicts your worldview must either be a conspiracy or the result of sloppiness :roll:. Most conservatives and right wingers I know of are happy with the system. I'm all for the free market but I don't think its suited for healthcare unless its in a limited role or as an alternative


It's called bias, and considering many of the countries that have these surveys conducted, the surveyors are in the employ of the government, therefore there is arguably a conflict of interest.



Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2011, 11:23 pm

So government pollsters can't ever be fair minded? Plus, I don't see ordinary people clamoring to get into our country just for the private healthcare.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Inuyasha
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18 Aug 2011, 11:36 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
So government pollsters can't ever be fair minded? Plus, I don't see ordinary people clamoring to get into our country just for the private healthcare.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yeah the ordinary people can't afford the airfare and jump through all the hoops. We see an awful lot of the wealthy from other countries though.



Kraichgauer
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18 Aug 2011, 11:40 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
So government pollsters can't ever be fair minded? Plus, I don't see ordinary people clamoring to get into our country just for the private healthcare.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yeah the ordinary people can't afford the airfare and jump through all the hoops. We see an awful lot of the wealthy from other countries though.


Or quite possibly, the average person is content with free medical coverage. Sure, there's a wait, but that's better than not getting any medical care at all.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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18 Aug 2011, 11:52 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
So government pollsters can't ever be fair minded? Plus, I don't see ordinary people clamoring to get into our country just for the private healthcare.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Yeah the ordinary people can't afford the airfare and jump through all the hoops. We see an awful lot of the wealthy from other countries though.


Or quite possibly, the average person is content with free medical coverage. Sure, there's a wait, but that's better than not getting any medical care at all.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


It is called an emergency room, they are required by law to treat you in an emergency situation. There are also doctors that donate their time for clinics in poor areas.



Kraichgauer
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19 Aug 2011, 12:05 am

An emergency room? Please, don't tell me that the poor should be relegated to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care. By the way, are you aware of how long the lines are at emergency? You could literally be waiting all day to have a sore throat taken care of, while someone else could be waiting with internal bleeding.
And by the way, I would suspect before Emergency rooms had to take any patient, conservatives were probably screaming about socialized medicine over legislation that they had to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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19 Aug 2011, 2:06 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Despite that, my point was, those programs work pretty efficiently. And so should nationalized medicine.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And pixies should fly out of my a**, but they don't.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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19 Aug 2011, 2:17 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Despite that, my point was, those programs work pretty efficiently. And so should nationalized medicine.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And pixies should fly out of my a**, but they don't.

ruveyn


I personally know of few complaints.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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19 Aug 2011, 6:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
An emergency room? Please, don't tell me that the poor should be relegated to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care. By the way, are you aware of how long the lines are at emergency? You could literally be waiting all day to have a sore throat taken care of, while someone else could be waiting with internal bleeding.
And by the way, I would suspect before Emergency rooms had to take any patient, conservatives were probably screaming about socialized medicine over legislation that they had to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The ER at the hospital my wife and I go to is set up to handle patients fairly quickly and they have reasonably competent doctors also (such as would be difficult to find searching through an insurance company's database). As for billing, they initially give a ludicrous fee of something like $5,000 per visit, but once the fee collectors are assured that we don't have an insurance company to milk the price drops to where we can actually pay the darn fee.



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19 Aug 2011, 10:51 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
An emergency room? Please, don't tell me that the poor should be relegated to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care. By the way, are you aware of how long the lines are at emergency? You could literally be waiting all day to have a sore throat taken care of, while someone else could be waiting with internal bleeding.
And by the way, I would suspect before Emergency rooms had to take any patient, conservatives were probably screaming about socialized medicine over legislation that they had to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If you believe emergency room care reduces poor to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care then your entire worldview if off. Even using your scale, however, yes, I'd rather have the poor reduced to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care than have everyone reduced to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care which is what would happen with a national health care system.



marshall
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19 Aug 2011, 12:10 pm

Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
An emergency room? Please, don't tell me that the poor should be relegated to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care. By the way, are you aware of how long the lines are at emergency? You could literally be waiting all day to have a sore throat taken care of, while someone else could be waiting with internal bleeding.
And by the way, I would suspect before Emergency rooms had to take any patient, conservatives were probably screaming about socialized medicine over legislation that they had to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If you believe emergency room care reduces poor to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care then your entire worldview if off. Even using your scale, however, yes, I'd rather have the poor reduced to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care than have everyone reduced to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care which is what would happen with a national health care system.


Proof please? It looks like Australia is doing just fine with thier national health care system.



ruveyn
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19 Aug 2011, 12:14 pm

marshall wrote:

Proof please? It looks like Australia is doing just fine with thier national health care system.


Small population. If the U.S. consisted of 100,000,000 White Folks we would be up near the top.

ruveyn



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19 Aug 2011, 12:20 pm

Andoryuu wrote:
Why would they belong to a group that is so focused on building a world of just rich, white, heterosexual men with nothing different about them and no illnesses?

Perhaps their definition of "conservatism" isn't the same as yours.



Kraichgauer
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19 Aug 2011, 1:13 pm

Bataar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
An emergency room? Please, don't tell me that the poor should be relegated to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care. By the way, are you aware of how long the lines are at emergency? You could literally be waiting all day to have a sore throat taken care of, while someone else could be waiting with internal bleeding.
And by the way, I would suspect before Emergency rooms had to take any patient, conservatives were probably screaming about socialized medicine over legislation that they had to.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

If you believe emergency room care reduces poor to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care then your entire worldview if off. Even using your scale, however, yes, I'd rather have the poor reduced to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care than have everyone reduced to second class citizenship when it comes to medical care which is what would happen with a national health care system.


No one should have to be treated as less than a person, regardless of how much money they have.
And who says that everyone would b e reduced to second class citizenship if we had nationalized healthcare?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer