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zer0netgain
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30 Oct 2013, 3:16 pm

auntblabby wrote:
there is just no communicating with people who think the pre-ACA status quo was a great thing.


There is just no communicating with people who think the post-ACA status quo isn't going to be much worse than the pre-ACA status quo.

Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth.

Communism is the equal distribution of misery.

You don't want to abandon Capitalism for Communism...you want to specifically address and fix the flaws of Capitalism while retaining the parts that are beneficial to your society.

The ACA does nothing of that sort for health care in America.



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30 Oct 2013, 5:14 pm

Why can't you just make corrections on the ACA to make it better? Why throw the baby out with the bathwater?
And by the way, those defenders of capitalism in the Republican party have done absolutely nothing to relieve the burden on people without insurance, are under insured, or have been deserted by their insurance companies. In fact, they did what was worse - they made things worse for those at the mercy of an industry that's supposed to exist solely to help them.


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auntblabby
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30 Oct 2013, 5:23 pm

the righties on this forum and elsewhere, just care for their own group and nobody else. they are dissocial.



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30 Oct 2013, 5:33 pm

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President Obama repeatedly assured Americans that after the Affordable Care Act became law, people who liked their health insurance would be able to keep it. But millions of Americans are getting or are about to get cancellation letters for their health insurance under Obamacare, say experts, and the Obama administration has known that for at least three years.

How do you know that those people getting cancelled liked their insurance? Most likely they never had to use it. They liked low premiums, but didn't realize their plans were crap and wouldn't pay out when they needed it.



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30 Oct 2013, 5:48 pm

We just got our 2014 rates per the ACA exchange. We can keep our current plans, but they range from a 40% increase to a 150% increase. Overall, it's a 75% increase for my company.

This leaves me with the following options:

1. I can attempt to pass this on to my customers. This will probably work for my government customers, but not my private ones.
2. I can require my employees to pay the difference.
3. I can drop medical coverage as a fringe benefit and let them figure it out on their own.

I guess none of us are the winners under the ACA.



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30 Oct 2013, 5:53 pm

adb wrote:
I guess none of us are the winners under the ACA.

WRONG. for the first time since I can't remember when, I now have real health insurance coverage that I can actually afford, meaning I no longer have to spend over half my income on a catastrophic-only plan. people who opposed universal health care always managed to leave out the fact of the subsidies.



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30 Oct 2013, 5:55 pm

Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.


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auntblabby
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30 Oct 2013, 5:57 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.

but the rich righties think they are favored by god by dint of their fortunes, and the TP groundlings buy into that hook, line and sinker. thus, [according to TP] the big insurance companies can do no wrong.



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30 Oct 2013, 6:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.


The president LIED when he passed this law, the American people didn't want it then and now reality is setting in for the rest. The people responsible for this mess will be punished. They knew this law would cause millions of people to be kicked off their policies and they knew that it raises costs. For a selfish few they don't care, their hearts were filled with envy and coveted what others have worked for, for them ideology and feeling right means more than results. Nobody wanted this law, not even its most ideological supporters. If they can't have what they want, then nobody can. It was always a trojan horse, a stepping stone for socialized medicine. The law's intention was to destroy the American healthcare system, you can already hear these ideologues push for what they wanted all along out of the failure of Obamacare. There doesn't need to be any more debate, this law speaks for itself, now its supporters must live with the consequences.



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30 Oct 2013, 7:00 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.


The president LIED when he passed this law, the American people didn't want it then and now reality is setting in for the rest. The people responsible for this mess will be punished. They knew this law would cause millions of people to be kicked off their policies and they knew that it raises costs. For a selfish few they don't care, their hearts were filled with envy and coveted what others have worked for, for them ideology and feeling right means more than results. Nobody wanted this law, not even its most ideological supporters. If they can't have what they want, then nobody can. It was always a trojan horse, a stepping stone for socialized medicine. The law's intention was to destroy the American healthcare system, you can already hear these ideologues push for what they wanted all along out of the failure of Obamacare. There doesn't need to be any more debate, this law speaks for itself, now its supporters must live with the consequences.

for Christ's sake! there never was an American healthcare system per se, it was only exorbitantly-priced health care services intended just for people with money, and such a [pre-PPACA] non-universal set-up that systematically prices out the working class is NO SYSTEM deserving of the name. and speak for yourself when you say the "American people" didn't want it! I am an American people and I WANTED IT!



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30 Oct 2013, 7:04 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.


The president LIED when he passed this law, the American people didn't want it then and now reality is setting in for the rest. The people responsible for this mess will be punished. They knew this law would cause millions of people to be kicked off their policies and they knew that it raises costs. For a selfish few they don't care, their hearts were filled with envy and coveted what others have worked for, for them ideology and feeling right means more than results. Nobody wanted this law, not even its most ideological supporters. If they can't have what they want, then nobody can. It was always a trojan horse, a stepping stone for socialized medicine. The law's intention was to destroy the American healthcare system, you can already hear these ideologues push for what they wanted all along out of the failure of Obamacare. There doesn't need to be any more debate, this law speaks for itself, now its supporters must live with the consequences.


You do know don't you that a significant number of Americans who opposed the law did so because it didn't go far enough? That means that, yes, the majority of Americans do in fact support health care reform. And no, it's not a crafty means to gain control of the healthcare system, it's a means to include those who have been left behind in the current flawed system.
As far as those of us wanting to be included in the healthcare system being motivated by envy, I really have to ask: how do you and Mitt Romney live without a heart in your chests?


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30 Oct 2013, 7:32 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.


The president LIED when he passed this law, the American people didn't want it then and now reality is setting in for the rest. The people responsible for this mess will be punished. They knew this law would cause millions of people to be kicked off their policies and they knew that it raises costs. For a selfish few they don't care, their hearts were filled with envy and coveted what others have worked for, for them ideology and feeling right means more than results. Nobody wanted this law, not even its most ideological supporters. If they can't have what they want, then nobody can. It was always a trojan horse, a stepping stone for socialized medicine. The law's intention was to destroy the American healthcare system, you can already hear these ideologues push for what they wanted all along out of the failure of Obamacare. There doesn't need to be any more debate, this law speaks for itself, now its supporters must live with the consequences.

for Christ's sake! there never was an American healthcare system per se, it was only exorbitantly-priced health care services intended just for people with money, and such a [pre-PPACA] non-universal set-up that systematically prices out the working class is NO SYSTEM deserving of the name. and speak for yourself when you say the "American people" didn't want it! I am an American people and I WANTED IT!


As I mentioned previously, if my brother was born in ANY other country in the world he would of died shortly after birth because of a congenital heart defect. This isn't me talking out of my ass either, this is what the surgeon said to my parents specifically mentioning Canadian healthcare. I do not come from wealth so this rhetoric of class warfare means nothing to me, I know where I come from. Obamacare will raise costs, restrict access, and destroy innovation. In fascist America, the trains do not run on time.



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30 Oct 2013, 7:44 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Obamacare will raise costs, restrict access, and destroy innovation. In fascist America, the trains do not run on time.


Increased revenue and decreased emergency care=higher cost? More health coverage=less access to health care? I don't follow.

And innovation has no bearing on health insurance whatsoever.

Yes, some people will pay more. Yes some people will lose health plans that don't cover emergency care, hospitalization, and cancer treatment. Yes, some premiums will go up.

Many people will pay less. Many people will actually be able to have insurance. Many people will be able to get non-life threatening treatment for serious health problems. Most people who are facing premium increases will qualify for subsidies, lowering their out of pocket expenses.

If you are angry about cancelled health plans, you can thank the insurance companies. They are not required to meet the minimum standards for quite some time. They are cancelling the plans in order to maximize their profits while they know that they aren't the ones who will be taking the heat for it.

In summation, many people will not be better off under the ACA. Many more will be, though.


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30 Oct 2013, 7:55 pm

Jacoby wrote:
As I mentioned previously, if my brother was born in ANY other country in the world he would of died shortly after birth because of a congenital heart defect. This isn't me talking out of my ass either, this is what the surgeon said to my parents specifically mentioning Canadian healthcare. I do not come from wealth so this rhetoric of class warfare means nothing to me, I know where I come from. Obamacare will raise costs, restrict access, and destroy innovation. In fascist America, the trains do not run on time.

what it boils down to, is this- ALL nations' health care delivery systems involve some kind of rationing, as only regimes with limitless resources can avoid rationing of any kind- all other nations' rationing involves a mixture of queues and limitations on health services available to citizens on their nation's public plans. America's pre-ACA status-quo involved the aforementioned limitations [for all but those swimming in $$$$$$$] PLUS restriction of primary health care delivery to the middle/upper classes, with nothing but punitively and ruinously expensive tertiary care for the working class who can least afford such. [and I am sure your surgeon was merely expressing his prejudices regarding socialized medical financing systems, as I have known Canadians who would take exception to such.] now, which system to you consider to be less unfair- the American non-system [which uniquely punishes the poor] or the rest of the civilized world's system [which more evenly spreads the hardship]? if you still opt for the former, then you have lost me.



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30 Oct 2013, 8:03 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Liberal columnist Kirsten Powers and Obamacare supporter sees her insurance rates skyrocket

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLtu8axeX2w[/youtube]



Insurance rates have been skyrocketing long before there was any vote on this law..and yes they will continue to skyrocket..as there is no real incentive for health care companies to reduce costs...substantially...

I have retired government benefits..and my premium is more than my mortgage..even with the government paying 66 percent of the fee...without that contribution I would be paying 18K a year..just for me and my wife...

Yeah..I'd be better off with Obamacare than what I have now..but i have no choice but to carry on with paying about $500 a month...

But I would only be an idiot if I chose not to have health care...but for people who have nothing to lose..there's nothing to lose I guess....

As basically they are losers...

Health care is really only a problem for winners..you see... that have something they worked hard for to lose...all their life..or in fact potentially their life..if they give a s**t about that2....

Without health care almost anyone can lose everything...if they want to live bad enough...or want to see their loved ones living....

This is no game..of chance...IT is life and death stakes...

People do not fully understand this..until they get there..usually....

When the stakes are potentially death....

For someone who is loved.....

But I guess without loved ones...
the contingencies are different...
for some..
2


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30 Oct 2013, 8:10 pm

Jacoby wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Rather than blame the president for insurance companies dropping customers, put the blame where it belongs - with the heartless insurance companies that have been taking people's money, then leaving them high and dry when they need help the most for years now.


The president LIED when he passed this law, the American people didn't want it then and now reality is setting in for the rest. The people responsible for this mess will be punished. They knew this law would cause millions of people to be kicked off their policies and they knew that it raises costs. For a selfish few they don't care, their hearts were filled with envy and coveted what others have worked for, for them ideology and feeling right means more than results. Nobody wanted this law, not even its most ideological supporters. If they can't have what they want, then nobody can. It was always a trojan horse, a stepping stone for socialized medicine. The law's intention was to destroy the American healthcare system, you can already hear these ideologues push for what they wanted all along out of the failure of Obamacare. There doesn't need to be any more debate, this law speaks for itself, now its supporters must live with the consequences.

for Christ's sake! there never was an American healthcare system per se, it was only exorbitantly-priced health care services intended just for people with money, and such a [pre-PPACA] non-universal set-up that systematically prices out the working class is NO SYSTEM deserving of the name. and speak for yourself when you say the "American people" didn't want it! I am an American people and I WANTED IT!


As I mentioned previously, if my brother was born in ANY other country in the world he would of died shortly after birth because of a congenital heart defect. This isn't me talking out of my ass either, this is what the surgeon said to my parents specifically mentioning Canadian healthcare. I do not come from wealth so this rhetoric of class warfare means nothing to me, I know where I come from. Obamacare will raise costs, restrict access, and destroy innovation. In fascist America, the trains do not run on time.


My friend it sound like you've been drinking too much libertarian tea...It does not work in the real world....

It's a pipe dream..and only a philosophy..to this point...

If you have cancer and don't have health care insurance you are likely gonna die sooner... It's as simple as that...

There are not people dying in Canada without cancer care....

And there is no price higher than death...

And if your brother is still alive..and your miracle happens and Obamacare goes away...yeah he could die too..again..if he cannot get insured with a pre-existing condition..so be careful what you wish for..is always a good policy...the best insurance policy in fact....


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