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lvpin
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28 Jun 2022, 9:39 am

Aspiegaming wrote:
If women can now go to jail for having an abortion, can they also go to jail for having so much as a miscarriage even if whether by accident or just a passing unfortunate random occurrence?



Sadly, there are already cases of that in the US.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V95lv3W ... wYorkTimes

https://rewirenewsgroup.com/article/202 ... -sentence/



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28 Jun 2022, 9:42 am

lvpin wrote:
Aspiegaming wrote:
If women can now go to jail for having an abortion, can they also go to jail for having so much as a miscarriage even if whether by accident or just a passing unfortunate random occurrence?



Sadly, there are already cases of that in the US.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V95lv3W ... wYorkTimes

https://rewirenewsgroup.com/article/202 ... -sentence/


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28 Jun 2022, 10:59 am

I have seen cases where women have been sentenced for manslaughter for being on drugs when a miscarriage occurred.

There is a famous case of a Native American woman who allegedly took methamphetamine, miscarried after four months, then was sentenced to four years in prison for "manslaughter." This occurred in Oklahoma. The woman and her legal team are appealing the sentence. I hope she is successful.

I stand corrected as to my previous post.



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28 Jun 2022, 12:58 pm

When we talk about sex strikes, what does that mean exactly? People saving themselves for marriage?



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28 Jun 2022, 1:20 pm

ironpony wrote:
When we talk about sex strikes, what does that mean exactly? People saving themselves for marriage?


No, it means refusing to have sex altogether until the current situation changes.

While an interesting concept, I doubt that it would be ever be implemented successfully or extensively.

There's an amusing Ancient Greek comedy called Lysistrata in which women withhold sex as a means to end the Peloponnesian War. It's very funny but, obviously, not based on reality.


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28 Jun 2022, 2:16 pm

ironpony wrote:
When we talk about sex strikes, what does that mean exactly? People saving themselves for marriage?


I'm not sure marriage is typically an excuse to cross the picket lines, so to speak.

Married women also sometimes need to terminate pregnancies so it's not the sort of issue that only impacts unmarried women, so solidarity regardless of marital status seems reasonable, no?


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28 Jun 2022, 2:32 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
ironpony wrote:
When we talk about sex strikes, what does that mean exactly? People saving themselves for marriage?


I'm not sure marriage is typically an excuse to cross the picket lines, so to speak.

Married women also sometimes need to terminate pregnancies so it's not the sort of issue that only impacts unmarried women, so solidarity regardless of marital status seems reasonable, no?


I agree.

Parents should have the right to decide to keep their babies too, without the government forcing them or deciding on their behalf.

It’s not just about abortion rights. It’s about the freedom to decide for yourself or as a couple, whether that choice culminates in yes or no.


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ironpony
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28 Jun 2022, 2:45 pm

But doesn't the government allow people the choice to keep their babies it no?



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28 Jun 2022, 2:49 pm

ironpony wrote:
But doesn't the government allow people the choice to keep their babies it no?



It’s not a choice if it’s a requirement.


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28 Jun 2022, 2:54 pm

Oh you are saying giving up for adaption is not an option?



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28 Jun 2022, 3:07 pm

ironpony wrote:
Oh you are saying giving up for adaption is not an option?


Adoption doesn't prevent people from being forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy (and facing the life-altering consequences associated with all pregnancies) to term though.

It's not actually a solution, at most it addresses a small portion of the concerns.


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28 Jun 2022, 3:12 pm

Sure the child could be given up. But with these new laws there could be such a large influx of children into the system. There is only so many foster parents and couples wanting to adopt. What happens to the rest of the children?



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28 Jun 2022, 3:30 pm

/\Especially the ones that are born with health problems , some from addicted mothers.
Most want perfect babies, not sickly ones.


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28 Jun 2022, 3:39 pm

First it's an infringement of a woman / couple's privacy to be pregnant in public for any length of time against their will. The right to privacy is protected under the 14th Amendment.

It's an unconstitutional invasion of privacy to have people know your sexual history when you or your partner are pregnant, and also a loss of privacy regarding your medical / mental health concerns during pregnancy and the decision for a potential termination.

It's an infringement of rights for young girls who don't want their parents to know they had sex, and for unmarried people who are expected to abstain from sex on moral or religious grounds (e.g., fundamentalists, Muslims, any other group).

It's discriminatory against Judaism. Jewish women have the right to termination protected in their faith but this will be denied.

No person should be forced to carry a child to term or partial term in the case of preterm labour.

You don't seem to acknowledge the invasion of physical privacy involved in pregnancy (vaginal exams and penetrative ultrasounds as just one example), the financial cost of prenatal and antenatal care for mothers and babies (especially preemies in NICU), stopping work or school, and possibly risking their lives during pregnancy, birth, or postpartum.

There's a mental health toll on parents becoming bonded to a baby whose kicks and movements they will feel for up to six months in a full term birth.

You don't seem to appreciate the hormonal response which bonds most mothers (and fathers) to their child during pregnancy, birth, and postpartum, the hormonal bond created during lactation, the psychological strain and guilt / shame of seeing or holding that child and then placing them for adoption, or the psychological trauma knowing that your child exists whether in an adoption facility, a foster home, or an adoptive home where they may be treated poorly. If they are treated well you may also feel guilt and shame that you could or should have kept them.

That's not to mention the child may come looking for you or the father one day, because of DNA technology.


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28 Jun 2022, 5:28 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
First it's an infringement of a woman / couple's privacy to be pregnant in public for any length of time against their will. The right to privacy is protected under the 14th Amendment.

It's an unconstitutional invasion of privacy to have people know your sexual history when you or your partner are pregnant, and also a loss of privacy regarding your medical / mental health concerns during pregnancy and the decision for a potential termination.

It's an infringement of rights for young girls who don't want their parents to know they had sex, and for unmarried people who are expected to abstain from sex on moral or religious grounds (e.g., fundamentalists, Muslims, any other group).

It's discriminatory against Judaism. Jewish women have the right to termination protected in their faith but this will be denied.

No person should be forced to carry a child to term or partial term in the case of preterm labour.

You don't seem to acknowledge the invasion of physical privacy involved in pregnancy (vaginal exams and penetrative ultrasounds as just one example), the financial cost of prenatal and antenatal care for mothers and babies (especially preemies in NICU), stopping work or school, and possibly risking their lives during pregnancy, birth, or postpartum.

There's a mental health toll on parents becoming bonded to a baby whose kicks and movements they will feel for up to six months in a full term birth.

You don't seem to appreciate the hormonal response which bonds most mothers (and fathers) to their child during pregnancy, birth, and postpartum, the hormonal bond created during lactation, the psychological strain and guilt / shame of seeing or holding that child and then placing them for adoption, or the psychological trauma knowing that your child exists whether in an adoption facility, a foster home, or an adoptive home where they may be treated poorly. If they are treated well you may also feel guilt and shame that you could or should have kept them.

That's not to mention the child may come looking for you or the father one day, because of DNA technology.


Oh are you referring to me, when you say 'you don't seem to appreciate'?



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28 Jun 2022, 5:53 pm

Yes I was referring to you, but not in a mean way.
I hope I didn't sound harsh.
I meant it sincerely, because you didn't seem to consider the hardship involved in carrying-to-adoption.

A lot of people think it's an easy solution but it's actually one of the most difficult.
It involves the trauma of being pregnant, plus the trauma of having to say goodbye to a child you grow to love.


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