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Cornflake
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15 Dec 2024, 5:06 pm

:hail:

Thank you so much; this is a valuable and encyclopaedic examination. :heart:
If only those who use those verses in their attacks would see them for what they are.


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TwilightPrincess
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15 Dec 2024, 6:03 pm

^ Thanks for responding! :heart:

There’s a lot more I could’ve added, including cultural/historical stuff and more silly arguments I’ve heard people use, but it’s already too long for people to read. At least I have some research I can use in future discussions if the issue of Bible-informed homophobia comes up again. I learned a lot, too.



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18 Dec 2024, 1:14 pm

Paul’s Problematic Views of Women

1 Corinthians 11:2-16

Since Paul featured prominently in my post on scriptures people cite to support homophobia, I thought I could explore the problematic stuff he has to say about women.

There’s a lot of BS in the New Testament about women in various books that have been traditionally attributed to Paul, but it turns out that some of them (e.g. Colossians, Ephesians, 1 and 2 Timothy, and Titus) were likely not written by him although the writers may have been inspired by his writings. Maybe I’ll talk about those passages and/or the New Testament’s treatment of women in general in a separate post.

The following sexist scriptures are not considered an interpolation; scholars think they were written by Paul.

1 Corinthians 11:2-3 wrote:
I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you. 3 But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and a husband the head of his wife, and God the head of Christ.
:roll: Enough said.

On the topic of head coverings:
1 Corinthians 11:4-6 wrote:
Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. 5 But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. 6 For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil.
While most fundamentalists choose to disregard this, my church practiced it in certain situations. I had to wear a head covering while praying or doing other religious activities in specific settings - often ones where I had to take the role that a man was supposed to fill if there were no men present. They tried to make this passage work with 1 Timothy 2:11-12 where it says that women are to be silent in church and not teach or have authority over men. It says something similar at 1 Corinthians 14:34 which, as I mentioned previously, scholars suspect was an interpolation, perhaps by the same misogynist who wrote 1 Timothy. At any rate, I couldn’t do certain things if a baptized male was present - even if he was just a kid and/or even if I could do a better job. If there was a 10 year old (or less) baptized male and a bunch of adult women meeting to go out preaching, he’d be in charge of assigning groups, prayer, and other nonsense like that. If no males were present, a female would do that stuff while wearing a head covering. Fun times.

I’m not sure why people want to listen to what Paul might say or suggest on other topics when he says such nonsense:
1 Corinthians 11:7-16 and footnote wrote:
A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; 10 for this reason a woman should have a sign of authoritya on her head, because of the angels. 11 Woman is not independent of man or man of woman in the Lord. 12 For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God.

13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head unveiled? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears his hair long it is a disgrace to him, 15 whereas if a woman has long hair it is her glory, because long hair has been given [her] for a covering? 16 But if anyone is inclined to be argumentative, we do not have such a custom, nor do the churches of God.

a. A sign of authority: “authority” (exousia) may possibly be due to mistranslation of an Aramaic word for “veil”; in any case, the connection with 1 Cor 11:9 indicates that the covering is a sign of woman’s subordination. Because of the angels: a surprising additional reason, which the context does not clarify. Presumably the reference is to cosmic powers who might inflict harm on women or whose function is to watch over women or the cult.
More on verse 10’s footnote:
Quote:
This mistranslation may be due to "the fact that in Aramaic the roots of the word power and veil are spelled the same." The last-known living connection to the apostles, Irenaeus, penned verse 10 using the word "veil" (κάλυμμα, kalumma) instead of "authority" (ἐξουσία, exousia) in Against Heresies, as did other Church Fathers in their writings, including Hippolytus, Origen, Chrysostom, Jerome, Epiphanius, Augustine, and Bede.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Epi ... r%20Church

As far as the entire passage is concerned, Paul just seems to be a man of his day based on his sexist views and the silly arguments he employs to support them. Most of the folks who cite Paul (or pseudo-Paul) to support their bigotry towards the gay community don’t push the concept of head coverings, not that Bible-based sexism isn’t still a widespread issue.