Please stop with the excess hatred and anger of Trump

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Dox47
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29 Jan 2017, 12:18 pm

marshall wrote:

Just wait until your family is threatened. It's so easy to talk like this when you are not directly in harms way.

My family is Jewish.

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Dox47
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29 Jan 2017, 12:23 pm

Shahunshah wrote:

Murder of an abortion doctor is wrong because it is against law and ultimately achieves little.

Yet murder of a white nationalist running for president is lawful and effective? Your argument here is... muddled.

Shahunshah wrote:

The first two scenarios are different as in both of them their are better ways in dealing with the problem.

Such as not resorting to violence?

Shahunshah wrote:

Terrorism on the government level on the other hand can be justified. Take this hypothetical scenario for example. Stay a terrorist murdered Stalin in the 1940s it would be good as it would allow for a more moderate leader like Kruschev to take power.

Who's to say that things would have gone down that way? Maybe murdering Stalin makes him a martyr and forces his successor into taking a much harder line than they would have preferred, and causes more suffering than if he'd been allowed to hold power.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Jan 2017, 12:23 pm

androbot01 wrote:

This immigration ban is so biased it is ridiculous. It reminds me of when Bush II said there were reasons to invade Iraq.

Iran did kill Americans via proxy movements, like the US Marines compound bombing in Lebanon. This happened in 1983 amid the civil war and it was conducted by a Shia suicide bomber belonging to Shia Islamist militia was known as 'Islamic Jihad' that later became what we know as Hezbollah today.

adifferentname
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29 Jan 2017, 12:49 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

Aye. Sometimes cutting the head off the snake just stirs up the entire nest.

jrjones9933
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29 Jan 2017, 12:51 pm

Trump's Muslim Ban, and I'm going to call it that contrary to the evidence because that's how it will be remembered, also purports to protect women.

It's difficult for Republicans to talk about protecting women, so they have to make a clear distinction between honor killings and white men stalking and killing their exes. They are taking a bunch of money away from protecting American women by slashing the Violence Against Women Act at the same time. It's okay to talk about the repressive culture in Islamic states while pushing to have an American theocracy, but it gets difficult to describe the mechanics of a culture of sexism in detail without confronting ugly truths. It's easy to provoke xenophobia without crossing into actual racism, just like it's easier to skulk around making nasty oblique comments than to have a debate about mastering debating.

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Shahunshah
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29 Jan 2017, 2:11 pm

Dox47 wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

Murder of an abortion doctor is wrong because it is against law and ultimately achieves little.

Yet murder of a white nationalist running for president is lawful and effective? Your argument here is... muddled.

Shahunshah wrote:

The first two scenarios are different as in both of them their are better ways in dealing with the problem.

Such as not resorting to violence?

Shahunshah wrote:

Murdering the abortion doctor does little. All it does is it takes away someone's life. People will still perform abortions and the world will still spin. A better way to deal with this problem would be to advocate for change. As for the murder of the person that convinced Adam Lanza, a better way to deal with this problem might be to try and convince this person to stop his actions. I see violence against civilians as bad in a real world context as it achieves little and is immoral.

The scenario you are placing is tremendously unlikely. Kruschev was the designated successor of Stalin it would have likely happened anyway. What's more or less true is that the Soviet High command hated Stalin, as their is little to like about someone who was sociopathic and threatened to purge you.

Shahunshah
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29 Jan 2017, 2:20 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

I believe if someone is a piece of s**t they deserve to be punched, yes.

I guess you better hope that no one else decides that you're a piece of sh*t that deserves to be punched, you won't have much of an argument about why they shouldn't be allowed to beat you up because they disagree with you.

lidsmichelle wrote:

Are you suggesting I politely tell a neo Nazi who believes we should "gently ethnically cleanse" black people he should change his ways?

That's how civilized people do it.

lidsmichelle wrote:

Personally, as far as I'm concerned, if you believe in virulently and knowingly racist, a sexual predator, commit domestic abuse (spousal/partner or child), or anything else like that you deserve to be punched in the face every morning as you leave your personal dwelling.

So, you want to subject people you find odious to violence, yet you're calling them Nazis...

My guy Richard Spence knows damn well ethnic cleansing is evil and immoral. He has an online presence and there's no way that multiple people have not tried to talk to him about ths s**t. If you think politely telling someone who believes in ethnic cleansing that their beliefs are wrong and harmful is going to change a damn thing you're a moron.

The thing sometimes its beyond someone's nature to change their perspective. People reach a certain stage whereby they are convinced it is the total truth and their is little we can do about it.

It is not always their fault they came around to this. How are they meant to change when it is beyond their nature. The narcissist is not responsible for their beliefs because they are influenced by their narcissism which can make change impossible.

marshall
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29 Jan 2017, 2:46 pm

Shahunshah wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

I believe if someone is a piece of s**t they deserve to be punched, yes.

lidsmichelle wrote:

Are you suggesting I politely tell a neo Nazi who believes we should "gently ethnically cleanse" black people he should change his ways?

That's how civilized people do it.

lidsmichelle wrote:

So, you want to subject people you find odious to violence, yet you're calling them Nazis...

You can argue this to absurdity. You can say no one is ever responsible for anything. Even if it is true that people have no "free agency", I think punishment is sometimes necessary as a deterrent. Especially for people brainwashed to the point where they don't understand anything but force.

jrjones9933
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29 Jan 2017, 2:53 pm

That's enough. Just stop. Force has not worked, and we have tried it on a lot of narcissists.

The way to deal with a narcissist whom you cannot avoid is operant conditioning.

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Shahunshah
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29 Jan 2017, 3:04 pm

marshall wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

I believe if someone is a piece of s**t they deserve to be punched, yes.

lidsmichelle wrote:

Are you suggesting I politely tell a neo Nazi who believes we should "gently ethnically cleanse" black people he should change his ways?

That's how civilized people do it.

lidsmichelle wrote:

So, you want to subject people you find odious to violence, yet you're calling them Nazis...

And that is where my point comes in why should Richard Spencer be punished if he doesn't have the capacity to inflict harm on others?

All that he is a racist and his followers who are likely racist themselves would simply be following someone else instead of him if he wasn't a leader.

lidsmichelle
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29 Jan 2017, 3:05 pm

marshall wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

I believe if someone is a piece of s**t they deserve to be punched, yes.

lidsmichelle wrote:

Are you suggesting I politely tell a neo Nazi who believes we should "gently ethnically cleanse" black people he should change his ways?

That's how civilized people do it.

lidsmichelle wrote:

So, you want to subject people you find odious to violence, yet you're calling them Nazis...

I agree. I also fully believe that being a bad person (and there is no question, if you're a neo Nazi you're a bad person) should warrant actual punishment not a bunch a sad little liberal babies going "he can't help himself he deserves compassion uwu" while ignoring the harm people like him do in the real world.

If he wants to kill of an entire race he's just misguided and has the right to his opinion. If I want him to be hit by a bus and run back over again for contributing to widespread acceptance of bigotry then I'm an awful demon and it's not OK.

Free speech only applied to bigots. Second chances only apply to bigots too apparently.

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Shahunshah
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29 Jan 2017, 3:07 pm

lidsmichelle wrote:

marshall wrote:

Shahunshah wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

lidsmichelle wrote:

I believe if someone is a piece of s**t they deserve to be punched, yes.

lidsmichelle wrote:

Are you suggesting I politely tell a neo Nazi who believes we should "gently ethnically cleanse" black people he should change his ways?

That's how civilized people do it.

lidsmichelle wrote:

So, you want to subject people you find odious to violence, yet you're calling them Nazis...

How is Richard Spencer a bad person?

From all we know he may be trying to do good by fighting against the "Evil black people."

If he is not evil why should he warrant a punishment?

In my eyes punishments should only be done when the reasons behind it are practical and with Richard Spencer their is little reason. He is just a guy he is not running for president and is not a threat to our lives.

Last edited by Shahunshah on 29 Jan 2017, 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

nurseangela
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29 Jan 2017, 3:13 pm

Dox47 wrote:

marshall wrote:

Just wait until your family is threatened. It's so easy to talk like this when you are not directly in harms way.

My family is Jewish.

You're Jewish? And Democrat? I don't understand that at all. I have never understood why a lot of the Jews voted Democrat - especially for Obama since it is very obvious that he hates the Jews.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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29 Jan 2017, 3:39 pm

Because Jews are not Christians and probably are wary of racist sentiments, if all Muslims leave the US, the Jews might be the next target.

And btw the Obama administration gave Israel the largest military aid ($38 billion) in the history of the US.

jrjones9933
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29 Jan 2017, 3:42 pm

Does Keith Ellison hate the Jews? It sounded like he said that it was time for a debate about Zionism.

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jrjones9933
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29 Jan 2017, 3:44 pm

nurseangela wrote:

Dox47 wrote:

marshall wrote:

Just wait until your family is threatened. It's so easy to talk like this when you are not directly in harms way.

My family is Jewish.

You're Jewish? And Democrat? I don't understand that at all. I have never understood why a lot of the Jews voted Democrat - especially for Obama since it is very obvious that he hates the Jews.

This argument is not going to work well for you. Have you read Breitbart? Trump just put Bannon in charge of the NSA. That probably deserves its own thread; my head has not finished exploding.

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