Hey kids: Don't be a sucker for socialism

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Mikah
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16 Aug 2018, 4:07 pm

AspE wrote:

Which is why there are no rich Fins? You can have a mix of private enterprise and a progressive tax which lessens the very real danger to Democracy of concentrated wealth. European Democratic Socialist nations don't eliminate capitalism.

I just replied to you in the other thread, but I can add more here along the same vein. Read this excerpt about a fascist economy:

Fascism is based on free enterprise – but with constraints (the primary constraint being, “Is the particular economic activity in question good for our nation/people?”). Also, a businessman can become wealthy in a Fascist country, and the government has no objection to this (this is in stark contrast to Communism). Fascism also encourages private ownership of property (again, in stark contrast to Communism where private property is not allowed).

In a nutshell, Fascism basically tells entrepreneurs, “Go ahead and start a business, earn a lot of money, be successful, but don’t produce any products or services which damage our nation and our nation’s people… and make sure you treat your workers fair and pay them a living wage. If you don’t follow these rules, we’ll shut you down.”

With regard to banking, usury is not allowed under Fascism. The government tightly controls all aspects of monetary policy, including terms of lending. The government issues/prints money and lends it interest free, as needed, to grow the economy and ultimately serve the citizens.

A few tweaks, a few different methods to achieve the same goal (make the economy work for the people), a different "us", a different "them" and the Scandinavian paragon socialist economies are technically fascist. Different sides of the same coin AspE.

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Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 5:22 am

Mythos wrote:

AspE wrote:

Bataar wrote:

This is not true at all as a socialist economy cannot create wealth. It can only distribute and reduce what is already available.

Agreed. I should clarify I don't believe in the absolute eradication of capitalism but I think that socialist policy should be at the forefront of all nations, since a governments priority should be its people and not its corporations.

You mean so we don't have a choice?

What if the people don't actually want socialism but want free-market capitalism instead? Countries can democratically try out socialism if they want. If it works for them, it works. Unfortunately, what we have now is... Zimbabwe. North Korea. Even Cuba has made considerable strides - it is far, far more capitalist than it was, and the tourist business is booming there.

auntblabby
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17 Aug 2018, 5:37 am

only prob with most capitalism [leaving aside the third way nations and those along those lines] is that it only works for capitalists.

Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 5:39 am

auntblabby wrote:

only prob with most capitalism [leaving aside the third way nations and those along those lines] is that it only works for capitalists.

Be a socialist if you want. Argue for change to a socialist system. Build a commune and live there if you're that way inclined. Be aware though, we'd be watching for dangerous behaviour. That's really the problem with elements of the left that are that way inclined - they breed terrorists. If they weren't bothering anybody they'd just be left alone to live their communal lives in peace.

Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 5:48 am

AspE wrote:

European Democratic Socialist nations don't eliminate capitalism.

Can you name any democratic socialist countries in Europe? I can't, and I'm a market liberal.

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17 Aug 2018, 5:58 am

speaking strictly of amuuurica at present, we have more of a right-wing terrorist problem AFAIC. amuuurican-style capitalism has a beginning, a middle and an end. no exceptions to this rule, so far. in the beginning here were ruinous instabilities [crashes, economic contractions/collapses] for which the bank of funny money was established, to moderate these dipsy-doodles in the economy, but which led down to some crazy rabbit holes that led to things like a 100+ trillion $ "black budget" and such, and without further moderation by liberals [amuuurican style ones, not classical ones] to shave the harsh edges off of our system [I.e. social programs paid for by progressive taxation], a tendency towards a downward path of national division manifests, which leads to societal instability [due to the effects of harsh inequality on the citizenry] and [if it is allowed to deteriorate past a point of no return] an eventual descent into "strong man" fascistic tyranny. something like this is happening here now.

Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 6:03 am

auntblabby wrote:

I would have thought Islamic terrorism is the number one problem. I can't speak for the nationalists but the FBI stopped reporting on motivation some time ago as it was a bit embarrassing because Islam topped the poll.

SZWell
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17 Aug 2018, 7:57 am

Tequila wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

FBI stopped reporting "on motivation"? You have some real life proof of this that isn't deranged right propaganda I assume?

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Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 8:11 am

SZWell wrote:

FBI stopped reporting "on motivation"? You have some real life proof of this that isn't deranged right propaganda I assume?

I remember reading this years ago but I can't find the link. Basically, the FBI stopped reporting on hate crime statistics after 2009 because it was embarrassing. See here.

Most of the racist stuff was against black people as a whole - the stuff that got reported anyway.

Try searching for 2010 and see what happens.

Anyway, it's an old argument.

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17 Aug 2018, 8:25 am

Tequila wrote:

SZWell wrote:

FBI stopped reporting "on motivation"? You have some real life proof of this that isn't deranged right propaganda I assume?

I'll wait on a link to said claim, cause I've been hard to find a credible source calling Islam terrorism as a number one problem

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Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 8:31 am

It was about hate crimes, not terrorism. Worldwide, literalist Islam is the main source of terrorism. After that, nationalists, although most of those have died away - especially after the Northern Irish and Basque terrorists packed up.

AspE
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17 Aug 2018, 9:31 am

Tequila wrote:

"...since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead."
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/rig ... 22743.html

ASPartOfMe
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17 Aug 2018, 11:21 am

Hate crimes can be and often is terrorism.

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LoveNotHate
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17 Aug 2018, 11:52 am

AspE wrote:

Tequila wrote:

"...since 2002, have killed more people in the United States than jihadis have. In that time, according to New America, a Washington think tank, Islamists launched nine attacks that murdered 45, while the right-wing extremists struck 18 times, leaving 48 dead."
https://www.newsweek.com/2016/02/12/rig ... 22743.html

According to wikipedia, "Islamic terrorist attacks" ..

The 2016 "Florida nightclub killing" alone killed 49 people and injured 53
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_I ... st_attacks

Also, the 2013 Boston bombing injured 183 people.

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Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 12:25 pm

AspE wrote:

Tequila wrote:

Think also that there are far more potential far-righters than jihadists in America.

And anyway, I was talking worldwide.

Tequila
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17 Aug 2018, 12:26 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Hate crimes can be and often is terrorism.

Being a terrorist isn't the same as hurling abuse at someone.

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