Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Does anyone else agree with feminism?

Page 29 of 100 [ 1585 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 ... 100  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

17 Mar 2012, 9:16 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
:roll:


What's wrong with it? You seem more like the sort of person without a strong outward personality, one that could lead. You need to develop your outward personality, I would say. You can do it, just needs some work. :)

I'd love to see a more confident you. You need to come out of your shell for it to work though, which is what leadership requires.


Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't know me all that well, even if you think you do.

Meh, back on topic.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

17 Mar 2012, 9:18 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't know me all that well, even if you think you do.


This may well be true. Would you like to show me the things I'm missing? You may well be quite confident with your boyfriend (as I am amongst family) but with outsiders it all goes pear-shaped. Am I right or not?



hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

17 Mar 2012, 9:19 pm

she asked for it to go back on topic. i am sending you a PM.


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105


puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

17 Mar 2012, 9:19 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't know me all that well, even if you think you do.


This may well be true. Would you like to show me the things I'm missing? You may well be quite confident with your boyfriend (as I am amongst family) but with outsiders it all goes pear-shaped. Am I right or not?


Don't take this the wrong way...but with you and your Mum it goes all pear shaped.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

17 Mar 2012, 9:19 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
i am sending you a PM.


Send it.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

17 Mar 2012, 9:20 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way...but with you and your Mum it goes all pear shaped.


Would you like to talk about this in more depth?



puddingmouse
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 8,777
Location: Cottonopolis

17 Mar 2012, 9:20 pm

Tequila wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Don't take this the wrong way...but with you and your Mum it goes all pear shaped.


Would you like to talk about this in more depth?


No.


_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.


Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

17 Mar 2012, 9:21 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
No.


Fair enough. I'm rather baffled, truth be told.



donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

18 Mar 2012, 9:02 am

puddingmouse wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
I also stand by my case that the reason women are under-represented in leadership is because, on average, they are simply less interested in being leaders. Which is pretty disappointing to be honest.


The conditioning of girls to be subordinate is pretty strong, even though there have been attempts to erode it. You have to remember how dire a lot of women's self-esteem is when it comes to leadership issues.

I, personally, have an interest in leadership, but I've always lacked confidence.


True, I didn't consider lesbians, but the vast majority of people (80-92% or so, depending on how much bisexuality can still pass as straight) are straight, I think with gay people the gender issue is quite a bit different in many ways.

That's another issue I have with the feminist movement is I question some of their postmodern stances, such as the fact that genetics has no effect on the way people are. Maybe 50 years ago, women were expected to be meek, but nowadays, I would say people tolerate strong opinions and even hostility from women more than they tolerate it from men. If a woman is assertive and rude she is 'strong' and 'keeping her head up' if a man does the same thing he's just an as*hole.

Movements like the Occupy movement are extremely welcoming to women, despite the unfortunate incidents that have occasionally happened there. I think, even if you strip all the cultural and memetic ideas about gender in society, women are still going to be a minority in leadership roles in the majority of circumstances. It's unfortunate, I wish it wasn't so, but the idea that it is because men are holding them back is just unfounded. On average, women just don't care about politics and such as much.



ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

18 Mar 2012, 10:08 am

donnie_darko wrote:

That's another issue I have with the feminist movement is I question some of their postmodern stances, such as the fact that genetics has no effect on the way people are. Maybe 50 years ago, women were expected to be meek, but nowadays, I would say people tolerate strong opinions and even hostility from women more than they tolerate it from men. If a woman is assertive and rude she is 'strong' and 'keeping her head up' if a man does the same thing he's just an as*hole.


I've been called a "b*tch* for expressing political opinions of the same stripe and in the same way as dozens of my male classmates.
donnie_darko wrote:

Movements like the Occupy movement are extremely welcoming to women, despite the unfortunate incidents that have occasionally happened there. I think, even if you strip all the cultural and memetic ideas about gender in society, women are still going to be a minority in leadership roles in the majority of circumstances. It's unfortunate, I wish it wasn't so, but the idea that it is because men are holding them back is just unfounded. On average, women just don't care about politics and such as much.


Feminism doesn't oppose men.
It opposes patriarchal institutions which favor men.
The fact that the modern world and yes, the US, is a patriarchal society isn't a feminist ideology,
it's verifiable sociological fact.

If women don't care about politics as much,
why have they statistically voted more often than men in every (US) Presidential election since 1980?


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


androbot2084
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Age: 63
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,447

18 Mar 2012, 10:31 am

I think the big problem with feminism is that most Men think that they will lose their advantages if they embrace feminism. But what if something different is true?



ValentineWiggin
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 May 2011
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,907
Location: Beneath my cat's paw

18 Mar 2012, 10:42 am

androbot2084 wrote:
I think the big problem with feminism is that most Men think that they will lose their advantages if they embrace feminism. But what if something different is true?


I've had several epiphanies about the subject lately-
if one defines masculinity as being, above all else, not in any way, shape, or form associated with being female or like females,
then the notion of feminism or gender equality as "anti-male" makes more sense-
it is, after all, single-handedly responsible for increasing female encroachment on spheres typically dominated or exclusively-occupied by men.

You're absolutely right- men stand to benefit from abolishing gender roles just as much if not more than women.
I think in many ways, men have a much more strict, suffocating script they're expected to keep to than are women, and it's extremely destructive.


_________________
"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

18 Mar 2012, 11:14 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:

That's another issue I have with the feminist movement is I question some of their postmodern stances, such as the fact that genetics has no effect on the way people are. Maybe 50 years ago, women were expected to be meek, but nowadays, I would say people tolerate strong opinions and even hostility from women more than they tolerate it from men. If a woman is assertive and rude she is 'strong' and 'keeping her head up' if a man does the same thing he's just an as*hole.


I've been called a "b*tch* for expressing political opinions of the same stripe and in the same way as dozens of my male classmates.

Feminism doesn't oppose men.
It opposes patriarchal institutions which favor men.[/u]
The fact that the modern world and yes, the US, is a patriarchal society isn't a feminist ideology,
it's verifiable sociological fact.

If women don't care about politics as much,
why have they statistically voted more often than men in every (US) Presidential election since 1980?


I never said feminism opposes men, I do think that feminism, to some degree, resents men on the collective level and blames men for women's problems. Or they mistake choices that women at large choose to make as being an oppression that is forced on them by the opposite sex.

I did a fact check, you're right, women do vote more than men and have since the 80s. However, studies show this is more out of a sense of duty, rather than out of a greater passion/interest in politics. It's not that huge a difference either, it's only a matter of 3-10% percent and prior to the feminist movement in the 60s/70s men only outnumbered female voters by a few percent. Studies suggest, and like any study, admittedly we should be skeptical, that women on average tend to have less interest in political activism beyond voting.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/ ... 50464.html
http://www.miller-mccune.com/politics/t ... vote-4219/



LKL
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 7,402

19 Mar 2012, 12:59 am

donnie_darko wrote:
That's another issue I have with the feminist movement is I question some of their postmodern stances, such as the fact that genetics has no effect on the way people are. Maybe 50 years ago, women were expected to be meek, but nowadays, I would say people tolerate strong opinions and even hostility from women more than they tolerate it from men. If a woman is assertive and rude she is 'strong' and 'keeping her head up' if a man does the same thing he's just an as*hole.

you have it backwards; women who assert themselves as much as men, or even somewhere near as much, are seen as b*****s and ball-breakers. Look at the horrible vitriol directed at Hillary Clinton or Sarah Palin: neither was doing anything that hundreds of men haven't already done, and yet they were called b*****s and villified and insulted in a particularly sexualized way (ie, 'you should be raped and then you'd know your place,' and the like).



AspieRogue

19 Mar 2012, 1:26 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:

That's another issue I have with the feminist movement is I question some of their postmodern stances, such as the fact that genetics has no effect on the way people are. Maybe 50 years ago, women were expected to be meek, but nowadays, I would say people tolerate strong opinions and even hostility from women more than they tolerate it from men. If a woman is assertive and rude she is 'strong' and 'keeping her head up' if a man does the same thing he's just an as*hole.


I've been called a "b*tch* for expressing political opinions of the same stripe and in the same way as dozens of my male classmates.



I do wonder what country you live(if you live in the US, what state/city) and what institutions you've attended, because here in the Pacific Northwest where I live, you'd receive a pat on the back for being 'assertive' and a 'strong woman'.



Here's another tidbit about the 'pay gap': My sister is an attorney and in her profession, she is paid the same salary as her male coworkers and she tells me that it's quite common in professions such as law an even medicine(physicians) for women to be given equal pay to men. It is in other industries(especially lower paying, "blue collar" jobs that women earn significantly less than men.



hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 52
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

19 Mar 2012, 1:39 am

AspieRogue wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:

That's another issue I have with the feminist movement is I question some of their postmodern stances, such as the fact that genetics has no effect on the way people are. Maybe 50 years ago, women were expected to be meek, but nowadays, I would say people tolerate strong opinions and even hostility from women more than they tolerate it from men. If a woman is assertive and rude she is 'strong' and 'keeping her head up' if a man does the same thing he's just an as*hole.


I've been called a "b*tch* for expressing political opinions of the same stripe and in the same way as dozens of my male classmates.



I do wonder what country you live(if you live in the US, what state/city) and what institutions you've attended, because here in the Pacific Northwest where I live, you'd receive a pat on the back for being 'assertive' and a 'strong woman'.



Here's another tidbit about the 'pay gap': My sister is an attorney and in her profession, she is paid the same salary as her male coworkers and she tells me that it's quite common in professions such as law an even medicine(physicians) for women to be given equal pay to men. It is in other industries(especially lower paying, "blue collar" jobs that women earn significantly less than men.

actually, no. the pay gap is wider in professional positions.

http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/legalf ... wyers.html
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/736877


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
viewtopic.php?t=391105