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Sopho
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09 Aug 2007, 2:16 pm

Ragtime wrote:
as they were created to do.

People weren't 'created' for anything. Although I guess you'll never accept evolution so I might as well not bother.



Sopho
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09 Aug 2007, 2:18 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Well, don't use me as example -- I can't get married. I'm quite sure God doesn't want me to, ever. I'll be celibate forever.

And I didn't say the attraction is good, I said God will overlook it if you're seeking Him, and therefore seeking to get rid of it.

You did get married though. It f**** up. So what? You were able to in the first place. I can't marry anyone I'd want to.


Again, your problem. Has nothing to do with me or Christianity, so you can just give up the argument right now. If you just don't like the Christian view, well, too bad.

Actually, yes it is due to Christianity. Most of the arguments I hear against gay marriage are religious-based ones. It's mostly the Christian Right.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:21 pm

Sopho wrote:
JoeCapricorn wrote:
However, why is it that a lot of Christians oppose legal gay marriage?

Yeah, that's what I want to know. The last thing I want is to get married in some church, whether I'm gay or straight. I want to be able to legally get amrried so that I have the same legal and financial benefits and, most importantly, protection for my relationship (hospital visiting rights, kids etc.) that any straight couple can get.

You already can in the UK, it is known as a civil partnership. They changed the law last year.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:22 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
I don't actually want to get married, I want the right to get married.

Oh brother... :roll: There's this thing out there called sanity... it's really awesome.

wtf are you talking about?
Either make a point directly or don't bother at all. This is an AS board after all. I get sick and tired of people making stupid comments like that IRL, I don't need it here as well. I am sane.

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:

And no one's hindering me from getting married to a man, yes. But I don't want to marry a man.

You have the legal right to get married to a woman. You just have to go to the places where that's legal, and get it done, if it's not legal in Britain yet. And that's another thing: stop blaming the U.S. for Britain's laws on gays, which are the only ones that concern you.
I'm not blaming the US for Britain's laws on gays. I wasn't talking about the UK. Since Labour came to power in 1997, gay rights have pretty much been sorted out. Although the laws in the US don't directly affect me, I still have the right to an opinion on it. I know people who live over there. I'm not some selfish as*hole who only gives a crap about my rights. Yes, I can get married to a woman here. But there are millions of people who don't live in England and can't. Should I just give up now and let everyone else fight for their right themselves, now I have mine? No, I won't. And no one should have to go to a different country to get married. And even if they could, they'd never be able to return to their original country and have the same rights (which is what this is all about after all).



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09 Aug 2007, 2:23 pm

Hadron wrote:
Please will someone quit whining about having rights they dont even want to exercise. Thank you.

Why? I should still have the right to get married, whether I want to or not. Why can't you comprehend that? There are plenty of people who are too lazy and apathetic to bother voting in elections, but In can guarantee that if you took that right away from them, plenty would be pissed off.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
WHY IS HAVING HOMOSEXUAL INTERCOUSRE A SIN?

Because God said it is. Those "Christians" for whom that is not a good enough reason worship man more than they worship God. (Romans 1:25)
Sedaka wrote:
cause so far, you've made it clear that it feels unnatural to you and feels forced... which is why you dont agree to it (obviously)

Once again, you're oversimplifying my words. I said initially it felt forced, but then it was kinda cool. Kind of like with any sin. At first it seems wrong, and you're trepidatious -- but then once you do it, it feels awesome, at least for a little while. And when I've repented of the homosexual desires within me, they left, and became disgusting to me again.
Sedaka wrote:
but since god answers all your prayers cause you're so earnest.... what's he say on this matter?

I never said He answers all my prayers -- geez, talking to you is so tiresome, when you keep twisting everything I say!

Sedaka wrote:
just gimme something logical

That's just it: I have, but you shape your morality by what you want to believe, rather than through unbiasedly seeking the truth.


you're tired cause you just cant keep up with anything

- i know what god says...... why does he say it... you can never follow through on the why part... cause you dont know... just friggin say it and that you havent asked god why (or he hasnt answered) and that you dont know.... that's all you have to do.

- really think your science experiment is lame... but i doubt it takes much to convince you of most things... and it's not like that's how homosexuals got roped into being gay... and is why it wont go away so easily as it did for you.

- quit being so literal (i know it's hard).... duh god doesnt answer all your prayers... i was being scarstic... but you seemed to say cause you pray so much that he does seem to answer a few...

-how is following the example of something being unbiased? you are biased by the bible


you still havent answered the why..... do you not know why god says homosexuality is wrong?


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Sopho
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09 Aug 2007, 2:25 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Well, don't use me as example -- I can't get married. I'm quite sure God doesn't want me to, ever. I'll be celibate forever.

And I didn't say the attraction is good, I said God will overlook it if you're seeking Him, and therefore seeking to get rid of it.

You did get married though. It f**** up. So what? You were able to in the first place. I can't marry anyone I'd want to.


Again, your problem. Has nothing to do with me or Christianity, so you can just give up the argument right now. If you just don't like the Christian view, well, too bad.


that's laughable... unless you and every other christian who shares your views DOESNT VOTE (or equiv. in her country)


She doesn't even want to get married. She just wants to post on Wrong Planet for the rest of her life, and thereby somehow change marital law. :roll: Gee, Sopho, maybe if you can convince me, British law will change! :P

British law already allows me to get married. You post on here with the exact opposite view as much as I do. So what are you complaining about.
Yeah I don't want to get married, but that might change one day. If I loved someone enough and it would make her happy, then yeah, I'd get married. I don't want to post on WP for the rest of my life actually, I have plenty of other things to do. Stop making stupid assumptions about people.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:26 pm

Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
JoeCapricorn wrote:
However, why is it that a lot of Christians oppose legal gay marriage?

Yeah, that's what I want to know. The last thing I want is to get married in some church, whether I'm gay or straight. I want to be able to legally get amrried so that I have the same legal and financial benefits and, most importantly, protection for my relationship (hospital visiting rights, kids etc.) that any straight couple can get.

You already can in the UK, it is known as a civil partnership. They changed the law last year.

Yes, I am fully aware of that. I do watch the news.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:30 pm

Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Well, don't use me as example -- I can't get married. I'm quite sure God doesn't want me to, ever. I'll be celibate forever.

And I didn't say the attraction is good, I said God will overlook it if you're seeking Him, and therefore seeking to get rid of it.

You did get married though. It f**** up. So what? You were able to in the first place. I can't marry anyone I'd want to.


Again, your problem. Has nothing to do with me or Christianity, so you can just give up the argument right now. If you just don't like the Christian view, well, too bad.


that's laughable... unless you and every other christian who shares your views DOESNT VOTE (or equiv. in her country)


She doesn't even want to get married. She just wants to post on Wrong Planet for the rest of her life, and thereby somehow change marital law. :roll: Gee, Sopho, maybe if you can convince me, British law will change! :P


she may want to some day

the fact you show no regard for people's rights is appaulling

and if you truly see no value in having rights (even if you dont exercise them)... well, there's nothin civil to say to that


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09 Aug 2007, 2:32 pm

Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Please will someone quit whining about having rights they dont even want to exercise. Thank you.

Why? I should still have the right to get married, whether I want to or not. Why can't you comprehend that? There are plenty of people who are too lazy and apathetic to bother voting in elections, but In can guarantee that if you took that right away from them, plenty would be pissed off.

You do have the right to get married, its just called something else. Perhaps for gay peoples protection, if the government had gone the whole hog and called it marriage i could guarantee you gay bashing would start again. Think about it. Its just a name anyway, i see no reason to upset most of the country because you want to rename something.



Sopho
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09 Aug 2007, 2:32 pm

Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sedaka wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Well, don't use me as example -- I can't get married. I'm quite sure God doesn't want me to, ever. I'll be celibate forever.

And I didn't say the attraction is good, I said God will overlook it if you're seeking Him, and therefore seeking to get rid of it.

You did get married though. It f**** up. So what? You were able to in the first place. I can't marry anyone I'd want to.


Again, your problem. Has nothing to do with me or Christianity, so you can just give up the argument right now. If you just don't like the Christian view, well, too bad.


that's laughable... unless you and every other christian who shares your views DOESNT VOTE (or equiv. in her country)


She doesn't even want to get married. She just wants to post on Wrong Planet for the rest of her life, and thereby somehow change marital law. :roll: Gee, Sopho, maybe if you can convince me, British law will change! :P


she may want to some day

the fact you show no regard for people's rights is appaulling

and if you truly see no value in having rights (even if you dont exercise them)... well, there's nothin civil to say to that

Exactly. If people who didn't exercise certain rights, automatically had those rights removed, no one would stand for that. But with being able to legally protect your relationship, it's seemingly OK.



Sedaka
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09 Aug 2007, 2:33 pm

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
as they were created to do.

People weren't 'created' for anything. Although I guess you'll never accept evolution so I might as well not bother.


since you bring up evo... we are made to reproduce... even dawkins says that in his first book selfish gene.... we're sperm/egg cars for genes...

but marriage... no we're not made for that


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09 Aug 2007, 2:35 pm

Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Please will someone quit whining about having rights they dont even want to exercise. Thank you.

Why? I should still have the right to get married, whether I want to or not. Why can't you comprehend that? There are plenty of people who are too lazy and apathetic to bother voting in elections, but In can guarantee that if you took that right away from them, plenty would be pissed off.

You do have the right to get married, its just called something else. Perhaps for gay peoples protection, if the government had gone the whole hog and called it marriage i could guarantee you gay bashing would start again. Think about it. Its just a name anyway, i see no reason to upset most of the country because you want to rename something.

I wasn't talking about the UK. I meant anywhere that doesn't already allow it, US or elsewhere. And tbh I don't see why it can't have the same name. As far as I'm concerned, al legal marriage should be referred to as civil unions/civil partnerships. Leave marriage to the weirdos in church.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:39 pm

Sedaka wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
as they were created to do.

People weren't 'created' for anything. Although I guess you'll never accept evolution so I might as well not bother.


since you bring up evo... we are made to reproduce... even dawkins says that in his first book selfish gene.... we're sperm/egg cars for genes...

but marriage... no we're not made for that

Yeah, I was getting more at the whole 'created' bit more than anything. I understand the reproduction thing, but marriage/religion is a load of BS. I wasn't created to marry some man.



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09 Aug 2007, 2:43 pm

Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Please will someone quit whining about having rights they dont even want to exercise. Thank you.

Why? I should still have the right to get married, whether I want to or not. Why can't you comprehend that? There are plenty of people who are too lazy and apathetic to bother voting in elections, but In can guarantee that if you took that right away from them, plenty would be pissed off.

You do have the right to get married, its just called something else. Perhaps for gay peoples protection, if the government had gone the whole hog and called it marriage i could guarantee you gay bashing would start again. Think about it. Its just a name anyway, i see no reason to upset most of the country because you want to rename something.

I wasn't talking about the UK. I meant anywhere that doesn't already allow it, US or elsewhere. And tbh I don't see why it can't have the same name. As far as I'm concerned, al legal marriage should be referred to as civil unions/civil partnerships. Leave marriage to the weirdos in church.

You dont live in the US. It doesnt concern you, so why are you complaining about it. It cannot have the same name because marriage is defined for a man and a women, and anyway it will offend religious types. You seem to be arguing about nothing.



Sopho
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09 Aug 2007, 2:46 pm

Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Sopho wrote:
Hadron wrote:
Please will someone quit whining about having rights they dont even want to exercise. Thank you.

Why? I should still have the right to get married, whether I want to or not. Why can't you comprehend that? There are plenty of people who are too lazy and apathetic to bother voting in elections, but In can guarantee that if you took that right away from them, plenty would be pissed off.

You do have the right to get married, its just called something else. Perhaps for gay peoples protection, if the government had gone the whole hog and called it marriage i could guarantee you gay bashing would start again. Think about it. Its just a name anyway, i see no reason to upset most of the country because you want to rename something.

I wasn't talking about the UK. I meant anywhere that doesn't already allow it, US or elsewhere. And tbh I don't see why it can't have the same name. As far as I'm concerned, al legal marriage should be referred to as civil unions/civil partnerships. Leave marriage to the weirdos in church.

You dont live in the US. It doesnt concern you, so why are you complaining about it. It cannot have the same name because marriage is defined for a man and a women, and anyway it will offend religious types. You seem to be arguing about nothing.

I don't give a s**t if it offends the religious freaks. Screw them. Since when did we make laws based on who will or will not be offended? Just because I don't live in the US doesn't mean I shouldn't voice my opinion on it ffs. I don't live in Israel either. Should I not give a s**t about anything happening over there either? I'm not arguing about nothing. I'm arguing about people not being given equal rights. So what if I don't live in the same country as them? I'm not some c**t who doesn't care about anyone else's rights.