Liberals: Should Muslims bomb Israel?

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All what the Israelis have to do is to return Palestine To The Palestinians, and relocate the Jewish state to Northern New Mexico/Southern Colorado area in the USA.

Please don't blame me if I didn't get what you said, but it sounds to me like you think Israel has no right to settle territory it captured in a war? In that case I disagree.

No because the USA belongs to the natives so the USA should also evacuate their country and give it back to them.

Similarly the Australians should all leave and give their land back to the Aboriginies.

Where does it end???

And in what way exactly was there ever a Jewish state in Colorado? Maybe they should return to their proper place of exile, Babylon.. Hey, now we've invaded Iraq let's set up the Jewish state there!.

Seriously... sometimes I just lose faith in humanity.

The moral argument for Israel’s existence is BS. It exist by default like all countries, morality doesn't come into it. Sure every Neo-nationalist tries to make out their country is personally blessed by god, that doesn’t make it so.

Also that "self determination" idea of Israel is flawed. Self-determination at the expense of other's self determination, yes that makes perfect sense . It is one thing were people living in an area want self self-determination. However Jews were dispersed all over the world, the Jews living in the Middle East were perfectly happy. Jews are not a race or even an specific ethnicity, as shown through genetic research. If every loosely defined group argue that they had a right to self determination exclusively in there own stretch of land, you would have to split not only the land but the people into infinitesimally small pieces. Yet another BS idealist concept, banded about because it sounds good.

There is false history in this thread. The Zionist movement was a minority movement in Judaism, initially and consider by the majority against Judaism. Even those Jews still living in the Middle East at the time considered it amoral. It was a small group of terrorist who came from outside that started it. I should add that we considered Jewish people allies to the west, yet these Zionist terrorist groups attacked not only military but civilian targets before WWII. These people became high ranking figure in the government and military when Israel was formed. A group recently tried to celebrate and terrorist attack King David’s Hotel Bombing, in front of the British Embassy. It was only after WWI that Jews started to buy into the idea of Zionism. It was entirely reactionary, like we have learnt nothing from WWII.

Israel needs to remove the settler and stay within its boarders. Everyone glosses over that.

Israelis have to return PAlestine to the Palestinians, and America has to Give Us the Northern New Mexico/Southern Colorado border. we Jews do not want to break relationships with Muslims, who for many centuries protected us from Anti Semitism and helped us retained our Identity, if you are a Jew who thinks that the Jewish State should be in Palestine,you deserve to burn in the flames of the Spanish Inquisition and have your Identities taken by fanatics such as Vincent Ferrer and Pierre d'Aubusson.

The moral argument for Israel’s existence is BS. It exist by default like all countries, morality doesn't come into it. Sure every Neo-nationalist tries to make out their country is personally blessed by god, that doesn’t make it so.

Also that "self determination" idea of Israel is flawed. Self-determination at the expense of other's self determination, yes that makes perfect sense . It is one thing were people living in an area want self self-determination. However Jews were dispersed all over the world, the Jews living in the Middle East were perfectly happy. Jews are not a race or even an specific ethnicity, as shown through genetic research. If every loosely defined group argue that they had a right to self determination exclusively in there own stretch of land, you would have to split not only the land but the people into infinitesimally small pieces. Yet another BS idealist concept, banded about because it sounds good.

There is false history in this thread. The Zionist movement was a minority movement in Judaism, initially and consider by the majority against Judaism. Even those Jews still living in the Middle East at the time considered it amoral. It was a small group of terrorist who came from outside that started it. I should add that we considered Jewish people allies to the west, yet these Zionist terrorist groups attacked not only military but civilian targets before WWII. These people became high ranking figure in the government and military when Israel was formed. A group recently tried to celebrate and terrorist attack King David’s Hotel Bombing, in front of the British Embassy. It was only after WWI that Jews started to buy into the idea of Zionism. It was entirely reactionary, like we have learnt nothing from WWII.

Israel needs to remove the settler and stay within its boarders. Everyone glosses over that.

The moral argument for Israel’s existence is BS.

Israelis have to return PAlestine to the Palestinians, and America has to Give Us the Northern New Mexico/Southern Colorado border. we Jews do not want to break relationships with Muslims, who for many centuries protected us from Anti Semitism and helped us retained our Identity, if you are a Jew who thinks that the Jewish State should be in Palestine,you deserve to burn in the flames of the Spanish Inquisition and have your Identities taken by fanatics such as Vincent Ferrer and Pierre d'Aubusson.

The Einstein Letter

Albert Einstein and 27 other prominent Jewish intellectuals (including Hannah Arendt and Sidney Hook wrote a letter attacking Menachen Begin's fundraising visit to the United States which was published in the New York Times on December 4, 1948.[44] Specifically condemned was the participation of Begin's group Irgun in the attack on Deir Yassin:

"Attack on Arab Village: A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (The New York Times), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants - 240 men, women and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin. The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultra-nationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model. During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and widespread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute. The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots."

The letter ends with the warning:

"The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misprepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal."

Please don't blame me if I didn't get what you said, but it sounds to me like you think Israel has no right to settle territory it captured in a war? In that case I disagree.

"Right to exist" seems a very flimsy and vague concept to begin with. I think it's rendered almost utterly meaningless when the dictates of the most democratic international law giving body (the UN General Assembly) are repetitively ignored. The only principles of governance in that region seem to be force (either internal to the region, the respective nation's military power, or external to the region, US favouritism).