Was Hitler trying to breed a race of super aspies?

Post Reply New Topic

Er, usually something is not in existence before it is created.

Dr. Asperger was German and working during the nazi reign. I don't see why it is so far fetched. If you believe that all the nazi docs were doing was trying to create blond/blued eyed people then ask yourself why? Don't you think they were trying to breed in other behavioral characteristics as well? How would they go about doing that? Breed in tubers, tumors maybe?

I wonder how many autistics have TSC and don't realize it. People with TSC have birthmarks. Usually they are white but they can also be brown. Their skin is often fair and they often have blond tufts of hair at birth. The white birthmarks seems like it could be some haywire trait of unnatural selection.

I really hope that nobody takes this inane conspiracy theory seriously (that is, its "proponents" are satirists in this model). If so I can only recommend a remedial brush up on your critical thinking skills.

This conspiracy theory is ludicrous beyond belief; you might as well invoke fairies if this strikes you as an factually acceptable idea.

This isn't so. Hans Asperger labeled his little professors "Autistic Psychopaths". "Psychopathy", from my vague historical-etymological understanding, meant "without empathy" (I suppose the manipulative aspects of what's now called psychopathy had yet to be attached to the name).

He used the term "autistic" purely by coincidence as Leo Kanner was studying his own group of (more low functioning) autistic children (coincidentally coming up with the same name).

Hans Asperger wasn't "inventing" a personality disorder distinct from autism (though he did empathize many of the personality aspects of the atypical neurology) and he fully recognized sensory issues in his patients which would trigger personality eccentricities.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=HoRX8s8 ... ng&f=false

"[describing how he came up with the name "autism] The name derives from the concept of autism in schizophrenia. Autism in this sense refers to a fundamental disturbance of contact that is manifest in the extreme form in schizophrenic patients. The name "autism", coined by Bleuler, is undoubedly one of the greatest linguistic and conceptual creations in modern medical literature." - Hans Asperger

"While the schizophrenic patient seems to shows a progressive lack of contact with reality, the children we are discussing lack contact from the start." - Hans Asperger

"... they ["Autistic Psychopaths" or people with Asperger syndrome] ... are not psychotic, instead they show a greater or lesser degree of psychopathy." - Hans Asperger

"Autism [Asperger syndrome] does not arise because of unfavourable developmental influences ... but because their is an inherited disposition." - Hans Asperger

Nazi eugenics was one reason for Hans Asperger's positive description of people with the atypical wiring, but there was possibly another: he had a LOT in common with them.

No.



Austrian, not German.



Vienna is in Austria.

So he wasnt a 'Nazi doc' as anyone involved in those projects would not have been shipped off to military hospitals in Croatia. Anyone with a smidgen of connection to the nazi regime was placed on trial at Nuremberg.

Stop imagining your way to the truth. You wont get there.

I've not read Frith's book or indeed Asperger's writing, I'm getting this from Constructing Autism - Nadesan

Rereading it, I remember now that autism wasn't a separate concept to schizophrenia, sorry about that. However, the key point is that Asperger didn't put autism into the same framework of schizophrenia, which was conceptualised as a heritable disease. Rather, during the mid 1940s, Asperger emphasised autism as being a personality disorder, one not hereditable and nothing to do with atypical neurology. Rather, this was simply a personality disorder, merely the personality they had which made them psychopaths but also had all these positive traits. Only after Lorna Wing's 'rediscovery' in the 1980s did we get modern concepts of atypical neurology.

I claim he 'invented' asperger's syndrome because his ideas simply cannot be justified under the science of the time. They just don't fit 1930's (and certainly not Nazi) biology and at best could appeal to Freud, something utterly unthinkable in Nazi Germany and the theoretical underpinning to link Freud to autism certainly wasn't in place. So by invented I mean he knew this was bad science but had no other means of saving these children and correctly believed he could get away with it. As I understand it, his later writings both explored personality disorders and atypical neurology.

Here's a quote from Nadesan

Not strictly true as some medical practitioners responsible for many of the experiments escaped, espeically if they didn't work in concentration camps. But yeah, there was nothing at to suggest Asperger had the slightest sympathy with Nazism. I do wish these people would do some research before posting.

a year before the war ended

alos before AS was "discovered" we were known as eccentric

I never said that Hans Asperger was a nazi!!

The nazis used Freuds writings as well as aspergers. Freud wasn't a nazi either.

Hohoho. Freud was Jewish and it was no secret.

Oh. Magnus.

Freud certainly wasnt a nazi. At that you are right. He fled Vienna when the Germans took over Austria.

Hitler banned Freuds teachings!

He banned information to the masses that would jeopardize propaganda efforts. The nazi psychiatrists tested his theories on hypnosis. There is actual video footage of some of the experiments. They were very interested in finding ways to treat soldiers who suffered from PSTD.
The US learned much from these nazi experiments. Look up Ewen McGregor and mind control. To think that the nazis were just interested in blond/blued people is just not logical, even for nazi rationale. If they could breed human traits like they did with the German Shepherd for example, then don't you think they'd do it? Do you really think they were above that? Why wouldn't they want to breed for better workers, better soldiers, more specialized human beings? What would stop them from that? In the very least I can IMAGINE that they would be interested in exploring areas of the brain as well as aesthetic qualities of humans.

Magnus, Nazi Germany existed for 12 years, and was fighting for its life half of that time (WWII started in 1939). The human generational time is roughly 20 years. The Nazis simply were not around long enough to even attempt any meaningful breeding programs.

That sounds fair to me. You just also need to answer some key questions. If they wanted to study Autistic people, why where they so intent on killing them? If they were so intent on studying autism, why were the Nazi in power ten years before Asperger 'discovered' Autism? Where exactly did Hitler get his concept of Autism/AS from? Why was no one explicit about this (given that Himmler, for example, was very clear on what constituted a Aryan personality)?

The best documented genetic development of a sub species would be



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domesticated_Silver_Fox

And it took 50+ years with one generation per year. Fascinating read if you can get the PDF for it. I want one for a pet!

It's no secret that they had breeding camps.

The German Shepherd was originally a herding dog. The nazis made them into police dogs. It only takes one or two generations to breed in behavioral traits. They weren't looking to create a new species, just a better working race I think.