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The bible used as evidence?

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Sand
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25 Jan 2010, 10:32 am

musicboxforever wrote:
I thought I'd throw my 2p in just for the sake of it. Someone who uses the bible or any other sacred book in a discussion I think is probably showing that they want to say they are not telling you something and expecting you to consider it because it is a wee personal idea they have thought up themselves, but want rather to direct the credit for the idea to a higher source that they would like you to respect more than them. It's a sort of humility as far as I can see.


Or it indicates they prefer to respond to authority rather than reason.



stev1parr
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25 Jan 2010, 10:43 am

musicboxforever wrote:
I thought I'd throw my 2p in just for the sake of it. Someone who uses the bible or any other sacred book in a discussion I think is probably showing that they want to say they are not telling you something and expecting you to consider it because it is a wee personal idea they have thought up themselves, but want rather to direct the credit for the idea to a higher source that they would like you to respect more than them. It's a sort of humility as far as I can see.


You have the gist of it. It is always proper to support or quote the source since the idea or information does not belong to you. And yes, if you have an issue or challenge with information being presented by a person other than the owner, it is the owner you need to challenge. If it is Einstein, then challenge Einstein. If it Darwin, then challenge Darwin. If it is Jehovah, go challenge him.



Sand
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25 Jan 2010, 10:47 am

stev1parr wrote:
musicboxforever wrote:
I thought I'd throw my 2p in just for the sake of it. Someone who uses the bible or any other sacred book in a discussion I think is probably showing that they want to say they are not telling you something and expecting you to consider it because it is a wee personal idea they have thought up themselves, but want rather to direct the credit for the idea to a higher source that they would like you to respect more than them. It's a sort of humility as far as I can see.


You have the gist of it. It is always proper to support or quote the source since the idea or information does not belong to you. And yes, if you have an issue or challenge with information being presented by a person other than the owner, it is the owner you need to challenge. If it is Einstein, then challenge Einstein. If it Darwin, then challenge Darwin. If it is Jehovah, go challenge him.


Since Jehovah has no blog you must then be satisfied with confronting Pat Robertson or some similar character who represents Him.



ruveyn
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25 Jan 2010, 11:17 am

Sand wrote:

Since Jehovah has no blog you must then be satisfied with confronting Pat Robertson or some similar character who represents Him.


The last person who could do that was Moses and he died a long time ago.

ruveyn



leejosepho
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25 Jan 2010, 2:50 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
Since Jehovah has no blog you must then be satisfied with confronting Pat Robertson or some similar character who represents Him.


The last person who could do that was Moses and he died a long time ago.


Ah yes, but at least we still have at least a sketchy record of certain things conveyed.


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Sand
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26 Jan 2010, 6:27 am

leejosepho wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:
Since Jehovah has no blog you must then be satisfied with confronting Pat Robertson or some similar character who represents Him.


The last person who could do that was Moses and he died a long time ago.


Ah yes, but at least we still have at least a sketchy record of certain things conveyed.


All hearsay, and prejudiced at that.



leejosepho
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26 Jan 2010, 7:08 am

Sand wrote:
All hearsay, and prejudiced at that.


Prejudiced as compared to what? Your opinions?!

Give me a break!


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Lecks
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26 Jan 2010, 8:47 am

leejosepho wrote:
Sand wrote:
All hearsay, and prejudiced at that.


Prejudiced as compared to what? Your opinions?!

Give me a break!

Are you claiming the Bible wasn't based on hearsay and wasn't subject to prejudice by it's numerous authors?



leejosepho
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26 Jan 2010, 4:48 pm

Lecks wrote:
Are you claiming the Bible wasn't based on hearsay and wasn't subject to prejudice by it's numerous authors?


Prejudiced as compared to what?


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Lecks
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26 Jan 2010, 5:37 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Are you claiming the Bible wasn't based on hearsay and wasn't subject to prejudice by it's numerous authors?


Prejudiced as compared to what?

The original text, obviously.



Magnus
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26 Jan 2010, 5:37 pm

Grimms fairy tales can be used as evidence. Seriously, that is some awesome literature.


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stev1parr
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26 Jan 2010, 5:43 pm

Lecks wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Are you claiming the Bible wasn't based on hearsay and wasn't subject to prejudice by it's numerous authors?


Prejudiced as compared to what?

The original text, obviously.


Your response appears to be incomplete. What do you mean by the "The original text".



leejosepho
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26 Jan 2010, 8:13 pm

Lecks wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Are you claiming the Bible wasn't based on hearsay and wasn't subject to prejudice by it's numerous authors?

Prejudiced as compared to what?

The original text, obviously.


How would you consider "the original text" to be prejudiced?

Note: Some of the problem, confusion or misunderstanding here might be the fact I am thinking of Torah and not of the KJV.


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musicboxforever
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27 Jan 2010, 6:36 am

I'm beginning to think that this is a bit of a pointless debate. Either you believe it and therefore believe that God would guide it's writers to write what he wanted. Or you believe men wrote it without any guidance and it is flawed. There isn't really an in-between.

I don't think that belief in the bible neccesarily means a person isn't open to reason. Evryone is an individual. If a person chooses it as something to submit to. Then who am I to judge. We all have to make decisions everyday about what we want to submit to, be it traffic laws or dress code at the office. These people choose the bible. They must have a reason for it.



leejosepho
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27 Jan 2010, 7:16 am

musicboxforever wrote:
I'm beginning to think that this is a bit of a pointless debate.


For myself, this is not even a debate. This is about understanding what is meant by things people say. But setting that aside ...

musicboxforever wrote:
Either you believe it and therefore believe that God would guide it's writers to write what he wanted. Or you believe men wrote it without any guidance and it is flawed. There isn't really an in-between.


If those are the only options, then how would we explain this:

http://www.eliyah.com/forum2/Forum1/HTML/002352.html ??


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musicboxforever
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27 Jan 2010, 9:08 am

Yes, you're right it is about understanding what people say. That makes sense.

I had a look at the link you posted, but I wasn't sure what I was looking at. Is it a translation with a different name for Jesus? Interesting.

Do you know, I've been trying lately not to look at things in black and white and I think I just did it again saying there were only two options.