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iamnotaparakeet
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20 Aug 2010, 1:30 pm

takemitsu wrote:
I heard someone say something before, maybe the author of a book with a title like, "The Collapse of Western Civilization" or something to that affect, that "civilization is on the rise when the lower class mimics the higher class, and it is on the decline when the higher class mimics the lower class" Maybe someone can help me with this one, but I tend to look at black culture as what white america has been looking up to for awhile now, and I feel like, socially, we are on a decline because of it. It is just a feeling, as I haven't living in any other time periods, but I do associate the quote and what is happening today together. Hopefully, it's just the effect of the assimilation process.


I'm not sure about that, but I notice in some hiring managers that back in the 80's when I was born they didn't care what color a person was, either for or against, and that was back in Texas. But since moving to Minnesota back in 2003, I've noticed that hiring managers do tend to care what "race" a person is, not in terms of discriminating against "people of color" or "immigrants" but instead a near exclusive preference for them above anyone else. Once I even worked with a manager, with the same melanin concentration as myself, and she'd go on and on about how mistreated all the minorities were and how this and that about how evil white people are and how all the minorities should be treated with favoritism so as to supposedly undo the wrongful treatment of the past. Unfortunately, that is also racism, another form of blind prejudice - judging ahead of time based upon cosmetic appearance or genealogy alone rather than upon any individual merit.



bee33
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20 Aug 2010, 1:30 pm

anjie wrote:
However, most of the "white men" buying this kind of crap
tend to be more aggressive, crude and not treat women
very well,not to mention low self-esteem and
without a moral compass, so this says something about the product, the
buyers, as well as the producers of such a poison.
This type of culture (whatever color you want to label it)
is detrimental to the health of everyone as a whole.

(Like I said earlier, the effect it has on all our youth
is alarming)

Concerned mum,
Anjie
I don't disagree with you, but I take a broader view on what I think is detrimental to young people in our society and to the society in general. I think rap is only a symptom, not a cause. When rap and hip hop started out in the early 80s, the songs were about the rage and alienation that came from being stuck in the ghetto with no prospects and surrounded by violence, as well as being a participant in that violence. They were angry but thoughtful cultural commentaries. Over time, the genre became watered down to its basest components.

But the reason for that is not that urban black culture or rap culture has become more debased. The root cause is that gangsta rap is a product that sells, and corporations are selling the heck out of it and laughing all the way to the bank. If there's something rotten in our society that has been negatively affecting young people, and all people, it's the shameless commercialism and the control that wealthy corporations -- whose only motive is profit -- have over every aspect of society, including government. It's corporate profit that has made rap what it is today.

The loud and obnoxious kids that we see glorifying the negative values they learned from gangsta rap are the victims of this larger scheme, not the perpetrators.



anjie
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20 Aug 2010, 3:29 pm

I appreciate you sharing these videos, Skafather. I listened to each of them and most of
what I heard was positive and motivating...Proving rap can be a positive force for our
childern...I just wish the healthy minded rappers could educate the negative minded ones,
but that's just the wishful world I live in, I s'pose.

It's true...Our youth, especially the obnoxious ones, are the victims.
They are the ones who have probably had the toughest times in life.

I, myself was poor, emotionally neglected as a teen and homeless, abused
and addicted to pain pills, so even though I'm the middle aged mum here, I can understand the hurt and anger reflected
in much of the gangsta rap (in the 80's it was very angry rock music)...I've been there...The only way out, though, is to rise above...

Heal mentally,emotionally, spiritually and channel one's anger into making change that helps.
not hurts...People that are hurting tend to hurt other people and this is the cycle
we need to come together to end...Gangsta rap(black or white) does not facilitate
such healing on any of these levels...

Sincerely,
Anjie

Thankfully I got my life on track



Wombat
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21 Aug 2010, 5:22 am

I don't blame "black culture".

On MTV the white singers are just as bad as the black singers.

It wasn't blacks who made "Califorinication" or "Sex in the city" or "Queer as Folk".

It is "modern culture" which is filled with sex and hate.
Black people are just as much victims as white people.



ruveyn
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21 Aug 2010, 5:29 am

Wombat wrote:
I don't blame "black culture".

On MTV the white singers are just as bad as the black singers.

It wasn't blacks who made "Califorinication" or "Sex in the city" or "Queer as Folk".

It is "modern culture" which is filled with sex and hate.
Black people are just as much victims as white people.


You are quite right. Crude is crude. And Base is base. The Nye Kultornyeh folk of the world come in all colors, sizes and shapes.

ruveyn



Sand
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21 Aug 2010, 5:49 am

Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.



BigK
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21 Aug 2010, 6:38 am

anjie wrote:
The one that gets me the most perhaps
has been witnessing the times my only child, 16 next week,
imitating the mannerisms and vocabulary of this culture
at times. I cannot stand to see my gentle, sensitive son...
straight A student (Likely aspie like myself) being influenced
by the degraded side of the black culture.


So what has your son been saying?

What were the guys doing on the bus? (please PM me if it was that bad).

My sons have attended soccer matches since they were around 8 and 10 years old.
There you can expect to hear middle aged white men screaming obscenities that would embarrass even a gangsta rapper. ;)
We're not going to deterred from going to matches because of that. Nor are we going to complain about 'White' culture.
People need to be able to take what they need from any culture. Take the good and leave the bad.

Kids get their values and learn respect from home.
They need to know your thoughts and feelings and learn their values from you.

As they grow they are going to be exposed to far worse things than gangsta rap and football supporters.
They need to be able to assess their situation, make the right choices and do the right thing.

Protecting them too much limits their ability to do that.

I don't know your straight As aspie son but I really doubt the he is down with the gangstas.

Most kids (black, white, whatever) who wear the urban fashions, listen to rap music and talk the talk would soil their underwear if approached by a real gangsta. Even if all he wanted was directions. ;)

Similarly a soccer crowd is not representative of white society. And a real 'firm' is not representative of a soccer crowd.


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iamnotaparakeet
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21 Aug 2010, 6:58 am

Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.



Sand
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21 Aug 2010, 7:14 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.


Plebian, of course, refers to the guys who do the work to keep civilization going. But, of course an aristocrat like yourself has nothing but contempt for the guys who work at WalMart.



iamnotaparakeet
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21 Aug 2010, 7:26 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.


Plebian, of course, refers to the guys who do the work to keep civilization going. But, of course an aristocrat like yourself has nothing but contempt for the guys who work at WalMart.


An aristocrat like myself... :lol: Yeah, I'm so rich. I'm almost done building an interstellar spacecraft which I paid for out of pocket... :lol:

Contempt for workers at Wal-Mart? :roll: :lol: Hardly, I'm glad I'm not working there anymore though! Wal-Mart's management sucks! :lol:

Say would you like an hundred trillion dollars? :P :lol:



Sand
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21 Aug 2010, 9:18 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.


Plebian, of course, refers to the guys who do the work to keep civilization going. But, of course an aristocrat like yourself has nothing but contempt for the guys who work at WalMart.


An aristocrat like myself... :lol: Yeah, I'm so rich. I'm almost done building an interstellar spacecraft which I paid for out of pocket... :lol:

Contempt for workers at Wal-Mart? :roll: :lol: Hardly, I'm glad I'm not working there anymore though! Wal-Mart's management sucks! :lol:

Say would you like an hundred trillion dollars? :P :lol:


Ah yes. The American confusion of money with aristocracy.



zer0netgain
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21 Aug 2010, 9:51 am

I think another aspect is what society tends to glamorize.

There was a time when kids wanted to be teachers, doctors, lawyers, scientist, astronauts. Now a lot of kids want to be rock starts, rappers, etc.

Sadly, that which is glamorized tends to be dysfunctional as a role model. Even Tiger Woods was a questionable model before his scandal because how many kids can hope to make it big playing golf for a living?

Perhaps we should stop lifting the worst parts of humanity as role models for kids and put the spotlight on hard working honest people who build society rather than entertain it.



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21 Aug 2010, 10:32 am

Our next door neighbor is black and he's a great person. His wife is from Dominican Republic. His kids are good kids and very educated. When my parents are out of town, this neighbor helps me. When dad was out of town during the blizzard earlier this year, our neighbor took care of the snow on our driveway, the walkway leading to front door, and other areas. He's in his early 50s. Mom and I were at home but neither of us could take care of the snow. We had computer issues and TV issues and our neighbor helped out.

My primary care doctor is black too and he's a great man too.


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iamnotaparakeet
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21 Aug 2010, 10:59 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.


Plebian, of course, refers to the guys who do the work to keep civilization going. But, of course an aristocrat like yourself has nothing but contempt for the guys who work at WalMart.


An aristocrat like myself... :lol: Yeah, I'm so rich. I'm almost done building an interstellar spacecraft which I paid for out of pocket... :lol:

Contempt for workers at Wal-Mart? :roll: :lol: Hardly, I'm glad I'm not working there anymore though! Wal-Mart's management sucks! :lol:

Say would you like an hundred trillion dollars? :P :lol:



Ah yes. The American confusion of money with aristocracy.


Well, you define by implication that the antonym to an aristocrat is a plebeian and even, particularly, an employee at Wal-Mart. If you knew anything about me then you'd know how utterly wrong you are! :lol: I am a plebeian, and have worked at Wal-Fart. I despise the corporation, not the workers who are trapped there. If I weren't fired from them under a false accusation, then I'd probably still be financially trapped by them.



Sand
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21 Aug 2010, 11:12 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.


Plebian, of course, refers to the guys who do the work to keep civilization going. But, of course an aristocrat like yourself has nothing but contempt for the guys who work at WalMart.


An aristocrat like myself... :lol: Yeah, I'm so rich. I'm almost done building an interstellar spacecraft which I paid for out of pocket... :lol:

Contempt for workers at Wal-Mart? :roll: :lol: Hardly, I'm glad I'm not working there anymore though! Wal-Mart's management sucks! :lol:

Say would you like an hundred trillion dollars? :P :lol:



Ah yes. The American confusion of money with aristocracy.


Well, you define by implication that the antonym to an aristocrat is a plebeian and even, particularly, an employee at Wal-Mart. If you knew anything about me then you'd know how utterly wrong you are! :lol: I am a plebeian, and have worked at Wal-Fart. I despise the corporation, not the workers who are trapped there. If I weren't fired from them under a false accusation, then I'd probably still be financially trapped by them.


There are values other than money and workers at ordinary jobs can qualify in many ways as aristocratic. I was aware you had worked at WalMart.



iamnotaparakeet
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21 Aug 2010, 11:15 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
Black culture has a long and diverse history. Classic black jazz is anything but crude and has had a major influence on all music throughout the world, classical and otherwise. Picasso's revolutionary work was heavily influenced by African art.


Roman cultures also have a long and diverse history, and the "black" part has nothing to do with the annoying aspect that is unfortunately portrayed in media format as being integrated inseparably. What is actually annoying is a form of plebeian culture which is inclusive of far more than just one shade of melanin.


Plebian, of course, refers to the guys who do the work to keep civilization going. But, of course an aristocrat like yourself has nothing but contempt for the guys who work at WalMart.


An aristocrat like myself... :lol: Yeah, I'm so rich. I'm almost done building an interstellar spacecraft which I paid for out of pocket... :lol:

Contempt for workers at Wal-Mart? :roll: :lol: Hardly, I'm glad I'm not working there anymore though! Wal-Mart's management sucks! :lol:

Say would you like an hundred trillion dollars? :P :lol:



Ah yes. The American confusion of money with aristocracy.


Well, you define by implication that the antonym to an aristocrat is a plebeian and even, particularly, an employee at Wal-Mart. If you knew anything about me then you'd know how utterly wrong you are! :lol: I am a plebeian, and have worked at Wal-Fart. I despise the corporation, not the workers who are trapped there. If I weren't fired from them under a false accusation, then I'd probably still be financially trapped by them.


There are values other than money and workers at ordinary jobs can qualify in many ways as aristocratic. I was aware you had worked at WalMart.


Oh really, and I suppose you have a self-serving definition of "aristocracy" custom tailored just for me, even though I know you'll claim it's "one size fits all".