Board index › Topical Discussion › Politics, Philosophy, and Religion

Is there anything actually wrong with Imperialism?

Page 4 of 5 [ 79 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Previous topic | Next topic

Is it wrong for one nation to control another nation?
Yes, absolutely. 30%  30%  [ 7 ]
No, absolutely. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Yes, if they are abusive to those under their control then it is wrong. 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
No, if they aren't abusive to those under their control then it is not wrong. 26%  26%  [ 6 ]
Yes, other. 17%  17%  [ 4 ]
No, other. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Maybe, maybe not, IDK 9%  9%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 23

iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

03 Oct 2010, 5:34 am

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Vekta in the Alpha Centauri system? .... In other words, that could be a problem. It's better to have multiple nations/empires separate so that their is still some competition between them in terms of standard of living and economics. A consolidated world government, at least prior to the ability to colonize other worlds and freely leave this one, would be tantamount to a monopoly, one of which would have control of not just a single resource or function but all of them.


A monopoly government functioning world wide is the Dark of Night, all day long. For those who cannot adapt themselves to the prevailing laws and customs of a country (even if they are just laws and good customs) there ought to be a place for such mal-adjusted folks to go. The Brits had Australia for example.

ruveyn


And, of course, considering the current politics in the USA, there is no question that it is dominated by maladjusted people.


Yeah, they're called "Democrats".


Since you feel so delighted with Sarah Palin and Christine O'Donnell I can place you quite nicely in mental quality.


A sound demonstration of logic from you, or rather the lack of it that is.


Since you find Democrats so distasteful I assumed you were fond of Republicans. A bit of a jump but I'd be delighted to discover you are not enamored of Republicans.


I'm not enamored with them, especially with the RINOs, but they are the lesser of two evils likely to win an election. I'm not blindly devoted to any candidate though, or "delighted" as you said, but I would rather a Republican be elected than a Democrat. But back to the original statement you made about "the USA, there is no question that it is dominated by maladjusted people." Those "maladjusted people" are currently "Democrats". The term "democrat" in regard to them is a misnomer, since they are really just seeking elitist control and are thus actually republican of a type, except for their liberal immorality and stupid economic ideas and attempted implementations.



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

03 Oct 2010, 5:43 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Vekta in the Alpha Centauri system? .... In other words, that could be a problem. It's better to have multiple nations/empires separate so that their is still some competition between them in terms of standard of living and economics. A consolidated world government, at least prior to the ability to colonize other worlds and freely leave this one, would be tantamount to a monopoly, one of which would have control of not just a single resource or function but all of them.


A monopoly government functioning world wide is the Dark of Night, all day long. For those who cannot adapt themselves to the prevailing laws and customs of a country (even if they are just laws and good customs) there ought to be a place for such mal-adjusted folks to go. The Brits had Australia for example.

ruveyn


And, of course, considering the current politics in the USA, there is no question that it is dominated by maladjusted people.


Yeah, they're called "Democrats".


Since you feel so delighted with Sarah Palin and Christine O'Donnell I can place you quite nicely in mental quality.


A sound demonstration of logic from you, or rather the lack of it that is.


Since you find Democrats so distasteful I assumed you were fond of Republicans. A bit of a jump but I'd be delighted to discover you are not enamored of Republicans.


I'm not enamored with them, especially with the RINOs, but they are the lesser of two evils likely to win an election. I'm not blindly devoted to any candidate though, or "delighted" as you said, but I would rather a Republican be elected than a Democrat. But back to the original statement you made about "the USA, there is no question that it is dominated by maladjusted people." Those "maladjusted people" are currently "Democrats". The term "democrat" in regard to them is a misnomer, since they are really just seeking elitist control and are thus actually republican of a type, except for their liberal immorality and stupid economic ideas and attempted implementations.


If, after experiencing the delights of the G.W.Bush administration's scams and lies and brutality and outright violation of the constitution and financial screw-ups, you find Republican rule acceptable I shall have to put you into the maladjusted class with the other extremely odd people now proclaiming all sorts of strange ideas.



zer0netgain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Mar 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,613

03 Oct 2010, 6:43 am

The problem with imperialism is that even when done with the best of intentions, there are many unintended consequences that are ugly.

If you encounter a primitive society and you want to intervene for their own good, you are ultimately overriding their natural development to impose what you think is best for them...depriving them the right of self-determination. Granted, you can help them avoid a lot of bad things, but to do that you must deprive them of the freedom to make their own choices. We learn from mistakes, even as a culture or nation, and you don't gain as much from an easy hand-me-down as you do from finding it out for yourself.

It is one thing to elevate a culture when they ask for it. It is another thing to civilize them by force.

However, there is the factor of how this culture can affect your own. If a primitive culture is confrontational, letting them grow on their own can be bloodier in the long term. Intervention might not be ideal, but better than the alternative.



Sand
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Age: 98
Gender: Male
Posts: 11,484
Location: Finland

03 Oct 2010, 7:05 am

zer0netgain wrote:
The problem with imperialism is that even when done with the best of intentions, there are many unintended consequences that are ugly.

If you encounter a primitive society and you want to intervene for their own good, you are ultimately overriding their natural development to impose what you think is best for them...depriving them the right of self-determination. Granted, you can help them avoid a lot of bad things, but to do that you must deprive them of the freedom to make their own choices. We learn from mistakes, even as a culture or nation, and you don't gain as much from an easy hand-me-down as you do from finding it out for yourself.

It is one thing to elevate a culture when they ask for it. It is another thing to civilize them by force.

However, there is the factor of how this culture can affect your own. If a primitive culture is confrontational, letting them grow on their own can be bloodier in the long term. Intervention might not be ideal, but better than the alternative.


And who decides who is primitive.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

03 Oct 2010, 7:27 am

Sand wrote:

And who decides who is primitive.


The side with the better weapons and technology. Think of the Spaniards and the Aztecs.

ruveyn



Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

04 Oct 2010, 8:37 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Sand wrote:

And who decides who is primitive.


The side with the better weapons and technology. Think of the Spaniards and the Aztecs.

ruveyn


someone hasn't been paying attention :D

another good example of when imperialism sorta worked out was the early Persian empire: many nations preferred Persian rule to their own corrupt government.

of course as is the problem with dynastic succession, eventually some morons got on the throne and the whole thing fell apart.



Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

04 Oct 2010, 8:40 pm

sorry, it said there was some error and I double-posted to be sure



NeantHumain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 24 Jun 2004
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,837
Location: St. Louis, Missouri

04 Oct 2010, 9:43 pm

The wrongs of imperialism include:

  • Loss of a people's autonomy/self-determination
  • Tendency of resources to go to the imperial power



Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

04 Oct 2010, 9:49 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
The wrongs of imperialism include:
  • Loss of a people's autonomy/self-determination
  • Tendency of resources to go to the imperial power


but that doesn't always happen.



Macaddictjay
Emu Egg
Emu Egg

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 1
Location: Jennersville, Chester County, PA

07 Oct 2010, 7:59 pm

Empires are not run by Democrats or Republicans. They're not even run by the governments of nations; they are controlled by an international cabal of banksters, who own the military/industrial/media complex. We live on a planet where this cabal's media has created a matrix-like illusion of independent nations and ostensibly-competing parties, corporations and religions. We already have the equivalent of one-world government; the irony is that the cabal, as powerful as it is, must maintain these illusions or be discovered for what they are, and ultimately lose their power. All their money is on paper; the real wealth of the planet is created by those that produce goods and services, and the puppeteer-elite are parasites. The only question is, will enough of us get wise to their game before the hour that their illusions triumph, and you will no longer be able to read these words?



Tensu
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,661
Location: Nixa, MO, USA

07 Oct 2010, 8:21 pm

Macaddictjay wrote:
Empires are not run by Democrats or Republicans. They're not even run by the governments of nations; they are controlled by an international cabal of banksters, who own the military/industrial/media complex. We live on a planet where this cabal's media has created a matrix-like illusion of independent nations and ostensibly-competing parties, corporations and religions. We already have the equivalent of one-world government; the irony is that the cabal, as powerful as it is, must maintain these illusions or be discovered for what they are, and ultimately lose their power. All their money is on paper; the real wealth of the planet is created by those that produce goods and services, and the puppeteer-elite are parasites. The only question is, will enough of us get wise to their game before the hour that their illusions triumph, and you will no longer be able to read these words?


...

Ok...



iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

08 Oct 2010, 12:35 am

Macaddictjay wrote:
Empires are not run by Democrats or Republicans. They're not even run by the governments of nations; they are controlled by an international cabal of banksters, who own the military/industrial/media complex. We live on a planet where this cabal's media has created a matrix-like illusion of independent nations and ostensibly-competing parties, corporations and religions. We already have the equivalent of one-world government; the irony is that the cabal, as powerful as it is, must maintain these illusions or be discovered for what they are, and ultimately lose their power. All their money is on paper; the real wealth of the planet is created by those that produce goods and services, and the puppeteer-elite are parasites. The only question is, will enough of us get wise to their game before the hour that their illusions triumph, and you will no longer be able to read these words?


Welcome to PPR *cough*, uh... to Wrong Planet!



Bethie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,817
Location: My World, Highview, Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, Local Group, Local Supercluster

08 Oct 2010, 1:13 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
Is there one that isn't bad?


Provided that most people today hate the western world, would you say that the Aztec Empire was better than Spanish rule?



The west's imperialism is a big reason why it's hated in other countries.


_________________
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay.


iamnotaparakeet
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
Location: 0.5 Galactic radius

08 Oct 2010, 1:17 am

Bethie wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
Is there one that isn't bad?


Provided that most people today hate the western world, would you say that the Aztec Empire was better than Spanish rule?



The west's imperialism is a big reason why it's hated in other countries.


Send the Legions to squelch them!! ! :twisted:



Bethie
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,817
Location: My World, Highview, Louisville, Kentucky, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, Local Group, Local Supercluster

08 Oct 2010, 1:52 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Bethie wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
MotherKnowsBest wrote:
Is there one that isn't bad?


Provided that most people today hate the western world, would you say that the Aztec Empire was better than Spanish rule?



The west's imperialism is a big reason why it's hated in other countries.


Send the Legions to squelch them!! ! :twisted:


I LOL'd, :D


_________________
For there is another kind of violence, slower but just as deadly, destructive as the shot or the bomb in the night. This is the violence of institutions; indifference and inaction and slow decay.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

08 Oct 2010, 12:33 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

Send the Legions to squelch them!! ! :twisted:


Good point. The Romans in their prime did not give a rat's a** whether anyone loved them or not.

ruveyn



cron