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leejosepho
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13 Nov 2010, 9:35 am

NobelCynic wrote:
Why is it that a member cannot start a topic to discuss a book with a spiritual theme without people, with nothing to say on that topic, jumping in to repeat an argument they have already had in scores of threads?

Some people go to great lengths to squash any mention of anything spiritual or mystical or whatever, and that kind of action always breaks down to some matter of the ego.

One interesting thing about Spillman's book is the inclusion of many stories of people who were in various ways simply *experiencing* things in some kind of spiritual or mystical realm (sans "magic") beyond any immediate reality, and those experiences took place even without those people being spiritually-minded or "mystical" themselves. In metaphor (I think): My cat sometimes sees or hears things (merely in the immediate and physical, I am sure) that grab her attention where I see or hear nothing at all. I am not one to put much stock in the idea of "ghosts" and so on, yet Spillman reports far too many incidents of *something* going on to simply dismiss all of them outright ... and he seems to suggest autistics can be found somehow "connected" to all of that.


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NobelCynic
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13 Nov 2010, 12:31 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Some people go to great lengths to squash any mention of anything spiritual or mystical or whatever, and that kind of action always breaks down to some matter of the ego.

I sort of agree though I am not sure there is a purpose in mind. Some people just like talking more than listening (or posting better than reading.) Waltur claimed that Underhill's analysis of the perceived connection between mysticism and magic proved that your report was mystical, without citing any references, 25 minutes after I posted the link.

The funny thing is he has a point though not from the source he claimed. You freedom from alcohol could be seen as purgation which is a stage of mysticism falling between recollection and contemplation.
Evelyn Underhill wrote:
By this first deliberate effort to attend to Reality you are at once brought face to face with that dreadful revelation of disharmony, unrealness, and interior muddle which the blunt moralists call “conviction of sin.” Never again need those moralists point out to you the inherent silliness of your earnest pursuit of impermanent things: your solemn concentration upon the game of getting on. None the less, this attitude persists. Again and again you swing back to it. Something more than realisation is needed if you are to adjust yourself to your new vision of the world. This game which you have played so long has formed and conditioned you, developing certain qualities and perceptions, leaving the rest in abeyance: so that now, suddenly asked to play another, which demands fresh movements, alertness of a different sort, your mental muscles are intractable, your attention refuses to respond. Nothing less will serve you here than that drastic remodelling of character which the mystics call “Purgation,” the second stage in the training of the human consciousness for participation in Reality.
Underhill, Evelyn "Pratical Mysticism" Chapter V


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leejosepho
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13 Nov 2010, 2:29 pm

NobelCynic wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Some people go to great lengths to squash any mention of anything spiritual or mystical or whatever, and that kind of action always breaks down to some matter of the ego.

I sort of agree though I am not sure there is a purpose in mind. Some people just like talking more than listening (or posting better than reading.)

I do not mean to specifically accuse anyone here, yet I do know there are people here who do act exactly like various people I have met elsewhere who will very intentionally and directly block and/or mock any and all attempts to talk about anything at all that might in any way cause anyone at all to even slightly suspect there actually might be any kind of supernatural anything anywhere ... and personally, I think that says quite a lot about the certainty *of* the supernatural!

NobelCynic wrote:
You freedom from alcohol could be seen as purgation which is a stage of mysticism falling between recollection and contemplation.

I am actually ignorant of that kind of academic or perception or description or whatever, but I do know that whatever "transformed my mind" did not come from any man or woman or from anything within me ... and that is at least one of the points of Spillman's books I have read:

The so-called "God Connection" and its evidence could not exist if there is none.


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waltur
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13 Nov 2010, 5:45 pm

leejosepho wrote:
NobelCynic wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
Some people go to great lengths to squash any mention of anything spiritual or mystical or whatever, and that kind of action always breaks down to some matter of the ego.

I sort of agree though I am not sure there is a purpose in mind. Some people just like talking more than listening (or posting better than reading.)

I do not mean to specifically accuse anyone here, yet I do know there are people here who do act exactly like various people I have met elsewhere who will very intentionally and directly block and/or mock any and all attempts to talk about anything at all that might in any way cause anyone at all to even slightly suspect there actually might be any kind of supernatural anything anywhere ... and personally, I think that says quite a lot about the certainty *of* the supernatural!

NobelCynic wrote:
You freedom from alcohol could be seen as purgation which is a stage of mysticism falling between recollection and contemplation.

I am actually ignorant of that kind of academic or perception or description or whatever, but I do know that whatever "transformed my mind" did not come from any man or woman or from anything within me ... and that is at least one of the points of Spillman's books I have read:

The so-called "God Connection" and its evidence could not exist if there is none.


i don't just mock.

Image

i also casually refute things like "The so-called 'God Connection' and its evidence..."

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN3ggRgY7Ac[/youtube]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helmet


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pgd
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14 Nov 2010, 10:49 am

Mysticism may be more closely associated with TLE/complex partial seizures than autism / Asperger's. That's my understanding.



leejosepho
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14 Nov 2010, 12:53 pm

waltur wrote:
NobelCynic wrote:
waltur wrote:
i think that leejosepho's testimony to his own experiences of mysticism,

Leejosepho's testimony had nothing to do with mysticism, let alone magic. In her more complete work, Evelyn Underhill devoted a whole chapter to the error connecting the two; here is a link to it if you would like to learn something about what you are talking about.


that link provides an excellent justification to label the aforementioned testimony as an experience of mysticism. it also provides excellent justification to label any claim of deistic intervention as a claim of magic.

as i mentioned before, skafather provided an excellent perspective on magic and mysticism when he paraphrased arthur c clarke ("Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.") and expanded it to include mysticism as "psychology and pharmacology that we don't understand yet."

feel free to point out where i'm off on this. different perspectives are always welcome.

Many (or maybe even most) of the terms and expressions being used here are beyond my "academic level" or whatever, yet I would offer one specific experience for consideration, comment or dissection:

During an earlier part (the mid-'90s) of my own "spiritual quest" or whatever, I was trying to comprehend a certain part of the experience shared in "Alcoholics Anonymous", the book ... and it might mean something here to know my "earnest study" of the experience recorded/reported there in that book had already been on-going and quite intense for many years at that time.

One evening as I sat reading and thinking and trying to write some commentary on the above-mentioned stuff while yet finding myself unable to truly see its "big picture" I was sure I was still missing -- what that "picture" actually was/is is irrelevant here -- something happened far different from anything I had ever before in any way experienced at all. My best description of what took place at that time is this:

A "presence of thought" made "contact" (meaning I felt a physical sensation like when someone pretends to break an egg on your head, sans impact) at the very top of my scalp and descended down through my brain/mind (over the course of a few seconds) where its presence and its accompanying physical sensation then ended at about ear-lobe-level ... and "the big picture" I had been believing I had been missing had thus become (or had been made) known to me ... and that same experience actually happened twice more on that same evening (with additional information/insight) and then once per evening (with more of the same or related) for the remainder of that week ... and each and every time that happened was for me just as unexpected/unanticipated and just as much of a surprise as the first ... and nothing anywhere even close to anything like any of that has ever again happened since.

Now, I have no complaint about anyone saying whatever they might say about any or all of that for just as long as same individual/s can explain where or how I got the information/insight I *did* get from all of that and did *not* have and could *not* previously find or figure out on my own.


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