The Truth About Christmas

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AngelRho
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20 Dec 2010, 12:24 pm

skafather84 wrote:

Vexcalibur wrote:

By the way, what evidence is there Jesus' birthday was not on December 25th? The bible, as always fails to give any historical account of the facts, so Jesus' birthday could have been ANY date INCLUDING December 25th (That's assuming Jesus was actually ever born).

The context of the shepherds indicates that it'd be more around summer...they'd be freezing if it was in winter.

December 25th was chosen because they wanted to steal a pagan holiday (the winter solstice). Much of christianity's holidays are actually pagan holidays and based more in astrology than in christian lure.

I don't really believe that December 25th was the actual day that Jesus was born. In fact, my guess would be closer to August or September.

But weather as a reason against December 25 isn't really the best way to go. I'm looking at weather predictions for Jerusalem right now, and the predicted high for December 25 is 61 with a low of 41. Cold, yes, but hardly freezing. And it's looking sunny and clear, for that matter. Therefore it's plausible that shepherds COULD have been out of doors tending sheep at that time since it's not unknown, even in our own time, for conditions to be just favorable enough for outdoors activity. Beit Lahm, as a matter of fact, which is only a few miles south of Jerusalem, is looking at 64 as a high and 42 as a low--wow, what a difference a few miles make! So they're very close, but still... If I remember correctly, the shepherds weren't actually IN Bethlehem but a few miles a way. I'm guessing a few miles south and west. Even if December 25 is NOT Jesus' birthday, it has nothing to do with the weather.

skafather84
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20 Dec 2010, 12:25 pm

AngelRho wrote:

But weather as a reason against December 25 isn't really the best way to go. I'm looking at weather predictions for Jerusalem right now, and the predicted high for December 25 is 61 with a low of 41. Cold, yes, but hardly freezing. And it's looking sunny and clear, for that matter. Therefore it's plausible that shepherds COULD have been out of doors tending sheep at that time since it's not unknown, even in our own time, for conditions to be just favorable enough for outdoors activity. Beit Lahm, as a matter of fact, which is only a few miles south of Jerusalem, is looking at 64 as a high and 42 as a low--wow, what a difference a few miles make! So they're very close, but still... If I remember correctly, the shepherds weren't actually IN Bethlehem but a few miles a way. I'm guessing a few miles south and west. Even if December 25 is NOT Jesus' birthday, it has nothing to do with the weather.

Global warming.

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leejosepho
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20 Dec 2010, 12:49 pm

skafather84 wrote:

It's also a pretty true statement. Easter, Christmas, All Saints Day, Valentine's Day...even the placement of New Year's Day is pagan in origin.

I believe all of that to be true, but the bottom line here is the simple fact of the Feasts found in Torah being the only celebrations or convocations that can be called Scriptural. No other "holy day" of any sort can come even close.

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91
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20 Dec 2010, 12:52 pm

skafather84 wrote:

91 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

December 25th was chosen because they wanted to steal a pagan holiday (the winter solstice). Much of christianity's holidays are actually pagan holidays and based more in astrology than in christian lure.

That is a pretty sweeping statement. Did you read the exchange that occurred on this subject on page 2?

It's also a pretty true statement. Easter, Christmas, All Saints Day, Valentine's Day...even the placement of New Year's Day is pagan in origin.

I guess the issue I have with your statement is the words 'in origin'. I mean, does the fact that Christmas is celebrated on December 25th make that the origin of Christmas? I don't think so. The word 'origin' implies too many things for my taste. Am I really to conclude that the fact that December 25th is not the day of Jesus's birth, that he was never born, preached, executed or resurrected from the dead?

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Banned_Magnus
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20 Dec 2010, 12:57 pm

Santa Claus is a spirit I think. Whenever I bellow a ho ho ho, I can feel it.

Quote:

Before Santa Claus there was Thor or Donner (German) whose "Golden Flying Chariot" was pulled by two Goats (Cracker and Gnasher). These goats were the mythological ancestors to Santas reindeer. Reindeer are a bit more appropriate than goats because reindeer are indigenous to Siberia and they love to eat the Amanita muscaria (so much that the shaman must find the mushrooms before the reindeer do or all of the mushroom caps will be bitten off at the stem). Reindeer also provided the people of that area with food, clothing, utensils, etc.

If the Christmas tree is a symbol for life, then could it also be the actual Tree of Life?

The Amanita muscaria is the Fruit of the Tree of Life because the Amanita muscaria cannot grow without the conifer tree. The Amanita muscaria mushrooms are quite literally the fruit of the pine tree because of the chemical relationship that they have with the roots of that particular type of tree.

They are found growing only under coniferous trees in nature. Just as nature needs an apple tree to grow apples, nature also needs a coniferous tree to grow the little red and white Amanita muscaria.

Keep this in mind next time you bring a pine tree into your house and place red and white gifts underneath it.

http://www.secondattention.org/articles ... istmas.asp

leejosepho
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20 Dec 2010, 12:59 pm

91 wrote:

Am I really to conclude that the fact that December 25th is not the day of Jesus's birth, that he was never born, preached, executed or resurrected from the dead?

Evidently that is what my mother thought I had done when I told her December 25th was not the day! She immediately jumped up and ran from my house screaming and crying something about whatever-it-was related to me.

For most of the Christians I have ever known, their overall belief system is but a very shaky "house of cards" easily crumbled by just one or two facts.

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Banned_Magnus
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20 Dec 2010, 1:03 pm

Quote:

To this day Siberian shamans dress in ceremonial red and white fur-trimmed jackets to gather the magic mushrooms. First they pick and place the mushrooms to partially dry on nearby pine boughs which prepares them for ingestion and makes the load lighter. This is why we decorate our Christmas trees with ornaments and bulbs, because the gatherers would always adorn trees with drying mushrooms. Next the shaman collects his red and white presents in a sack and proceeds to travel from house to house delivering them. During Siberian winters, the snow piles up past the doors of their yurts (huts), so the red and white clad shaman must climb down the smoke-hole (chimney) to deliver the presents in his sack. Finally the appreciative villagers string the mushrooms up or put them in stockings hung affront the fire to dry. When they awake in the morning, their presents from under the pine tree are all dried and ready to eat.

"The very name, ‘Christmas' is a holiday name composed of the words, ‘Christ' (meaning ‘one who is anointed with the Magical Substance') and ‘Mass' (a special religious service/ceremony of the sacramental ingestion of the Eucharist, the ‘Body of Christ'). In the Catholic tradition, this substance (Body/Soma) has been replaced by the doctrine of ‘Trans-substantiation', whereby in a magical ceremony the Priests claim the ability to transform a ‘cracker/round-wafer' into the literal ‘Body of Christ'; ie, a substitute or placebo." -James Arthur, "Mushrooms and Mankind" (9-10)

http://hubpages.com/hub/mushroomsanta[img]"The very name, ‘Christmas' is a holiday name composed of the words, ‘Christ' (meaning ‘one who is anointed with the Magical Substance') and ‘Mass' (a special religious service/ceremony of the sacramental ingestion of the Eucharist, the ‘Body of Christ'). In the Catholic tradition, this substance (Body/Soma) has been replaced by the doctrine of ‘Trans-substantiation', whereby in a magical ceremony the Priests claim the ability to transform a ‘cracker/round-wafer' into the literal ‘Body of Christ'; ie, a substitute or placebo." -James Arthur, "Mushrooms and Mankind.

leejosepho
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20 Dec 2010, 1:11 pm

Banned_Magnus wrote:

... the Priests claim the ability to transform a ‘cracker/round-wafer' into the literal ‘Body of Christ'; ie, a substitute or placebo." -James Arthur, "Mushrooms and Mankind.

... yet that "transformed" wafer nevertheless still sets of certain food allergies in people!

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Macbeth
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20 Dec 2010, 1:16 pm

It occurred to me whilst driving back across the grim foggy snow-bound pennines on a frosty night that Christmas NOW is a bright and sparkly happy event that makes the crappy cold snowy frozen awfulness just a little bit less dire. For that reason alone, I see no problem with it occurring where it does.

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91
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20 Dec 2010, 1:22 pm

Macbeth wrote:

Being in Australia, Christmas occurs in summer. I have never experienced a 'White Christmas'.

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ThatRedHairedGrrl
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20 Dec 2010, 2:57 pm

Look, we're human beings. We hate darkness and cold and hunger, and like light and warmth and good food and drink, and doing what we do in midwinter, whatever religious label we happen to give it, is a reasonable response to the facts of the world we live in. No deity worth worshipping would begrudge anyone that, and anyone who suggests that God hates you for doing it can't really be surprised at how most people react to that suggestion.

And there isn't a religion or a religious festival on earth that isn't syncretic. Even the ones that claim they're not.

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20 Dec 2010, 3:46 pm

leejosepho -

"For most of the Christians I have ever known, their overall belief system is but a very shaky "house of cards" easily crumbled by just one or two facts."

I do not doubt your statement, since in my experience this applies tomost people - Christianity has little to do with it.

For most people, beliefs are divided into those that are important [for whatever reason] and those that are not.

If you talk against the important brliefs, some will get angry ans shove you [like when I tried to suggest it was not the presence in the neighbourhood of certain flesh tones that drove down property values], others will get flustered and figure they got it all wrong.

Rare indeed is the person who on ANY topic knows what he knows, believes what he believes, can explain how he knows and why he believes, and is open to data that revise the said knowledge and views.

Rare including - maybe even especially - in the University.

leejosepho
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20 Dec 2010, 3:48 pm

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:

... there isn't a religion or a religious festival on earth that isn't syncretic.

Are you sure that is true of the Sabbaths and Feasts of Torah?

I have never heard that about them.

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ruveyn
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20 Dec 2010, 5:33 pm

leejosepho wrote:

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:

... there isn't a religion or a religious festival on earth that isn't syncretic.

Are you sure that is true of the Sabbaths and Feasts of Torah?

I have never heard that about them.[/quote

Two of the three major Jewish festivals and one minor festival is related to the harvest time in the land of Cana'an.

Passover is a springtime festival, related to the vernal equinox.

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ruveyn
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20 Dec 2010, 5:33 pm

leejosepho wrote:

ThatRedHairedGrrl wrote:

... there isn't a religion or a religious festival on earth that isn't syncretic.

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21 Dec 2010, 5:53 pm

skafather84 wrote:

91 wrote:

skafather84 wrote:

That is a pretty sweeping statement. Did you read the exchange that occurred on this subject on page 2?

It's also a pretty true statement. Easter, Christmas, All Saints Day, Valentine's Day...even the placement of New Year's Day is pagan in origin.

If someone knows the origins about Christmas, Easter, New Years and so forth then its their choice whether or not they want to participate. As Morpheus said, "You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe." It all comes down to choice. No one is going to force you to choose, but you have free will and intellect to help you.

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