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MasterJedi
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04 Jan 2011, 12:55 am

I am not bound by any ancient standards of conduct. So long as it isn't against the law in today's society, I'm free to do it. I can take back what I say.

Heck, anyone can say they're never going to smoke again. Does starting smoking again make them a liar or somehow a sinner?



Alright, contradictions in the bible:

there are discrepancies as to how many sons Abraham had. In Hebrews and parts of Genesis, he's only got the one son, Isaak but in other chapters of Genesis, he's got many more.

Were man and woman created together or separately? Genesis 1:27, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
but in Genesis 2:18-22, "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

Genesis 1:25-27, "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image."

and then in Genesis 2:18-19, "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."

There are 457 of those at the website I provided.

Ever read a book and encounter something that was contrary to what was previously said?


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ikorack
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04 Jan 2011, 1:11 am

MasterJedi wrote:
there are discrepancies as to how many sons Abraham had. In Hebrews and parts of Genesis, he's only got the one son, Isaak but in other chapters of Genesis, he's got many more.


Couldn't him having different a amount of children at different times be attributed to him having more children?(and disorder in placement attributed to human error?)

Quote:
Were man and woman created together or separately? Genesis 1:27, "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
but in Genesis 2:18-22, "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them.... And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man."

Genesis 1:25-27, "And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. And God said, Let us make man in our image.... So God created man in his own image."

and then in Genesis 2:18-19, "And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."


I don't see a contradiction here. genesis 1:27 could just be a way to introduce what was coming.

Quote:
...
Ever read a book and encounter something that was contrary to what was previously said?


This book has been around and manipulated many times by humans.



MasterJedi
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04 Jan 2011, 1:21 am

sooo, would it stand to reason that, if you didn't read the original gospels and testaments, that what you believe is true now may be false?


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ikorack
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04 Jan 2011, 1:33 am

MasterJedi wrote:
sooo, would it stand to reason that, if you didn't read the original gospels and testaments, that what you believe is true now may be false?


hmm? What I believe isn't based on scripture maybe you should rephrase your question.



MasterJedi
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04 Jan 2011, 2:30 am

you're arguing as if you're a theist shooting it back at me with some kind of counter.


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Tensu
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04 Jan 2011, 2:33 am

Even if you won't accept the "Abraham had more sons since then", I question where you're reading Abraham had more sons... Not that I'm saying it isn't in there (it's been a LONG time since I've read genesis) But the Bible uses "sons of Abraham" to denote descendants of Abraham. Either way, no contradiction.

The bible simply explained that God created man and woman, and then went into detail as to how. That isn't at all a contradiction.

two down. 455 to go. bring it on.



ikorack
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04 Jan 2011, 3:07 am

MasterJedi wrote:
you're arguing as if you're a theist shooting it back at me with some kind of counter.


I am a theist, I am not a Christian. If I had answered your question as it stood it would have just lead to misunderstanding.



Tensu
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04 Jan 2011, 3:15 am

Now I'm all curious. I didn't see a post from you in the "what religion are you?" thread. If you do not mind sharing, what religion are you? (Since you mentioned being a theist but not any particular religion, my first guess would be deist, but I don't want to make any big assumptions)



LKL
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04 Jan 2011, 4:29 am

ikorack wrote:
He's offering to debate scripture with you, why don't you show him how evil his book is jedi.

{cue evil laughter}
I'd offer to help, but I just spent an hour wading through that stuff on another thread.



Inuyasha
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04 Jan 2011, 2:32 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
coincidence

and you don't say something is something without knowing!

I saw something brown! It must've been a 1978 Pinto!"

I saw something in the sky! It must have been a UFO!

I saw someone wearing white in the jungle! It must've been an angel!

Where are the angels (in white?) where there is famine or cancer? Where were angels when the bombs fell on Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Where were the angels on 9/11?

DAY OFF OR SOMETHING?

Don't go spouting crap about some obscure village what was saved. Who the hell are they that they deserve such treatment?


And how do you know what their destinies may be, it could be a grandchild of one of the people saved in that village develops a cure for cancer. We aren't talking a loan individual wearing white, we are talking enough to be considered an army.

Fact is you aren't God, you don't know what his reasons are. I imagine most of the 9/11 victims if not all are now in heaven now.



Philologos
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04 Jan 2011, 3:03 pm

"Ever read a book and encounter something that was contrary to what was previously said?"

Ever read a book where you DIDN'T?

Pretty rare occurrence.

I am happy to grant that there are discrepancies in a compilation which is several books from different times and places, some a bit on the obscure side and all of it seriously copied and edited over centuries. Kind of reassuring, like reading accounts of the same incuident in ten different newspapers.

It helps deal with some of the double blind elephant factor.

Will it save us ANY time and frustration if I here stipulate:

There are discrepancies.

Christianity is not accessible to logic.

Lots of people calling themselves Christians have done very unChristlike things.

The scriptures should not in all cases be interpreted literally.

Many logical people working with the scriptures have tied themselves in irreducible tangles.

Moral behavior is not the exclusive property of Christians.

There are some who will enter the feast who have no idea that they might be following Christ.

-----------

That will do for now, I will happily back any of those theses.

Explaining Christ to one who know him not is like when I was about 5 and my parents gave me a book explaining reproduction [yep, that was ALL the introduction I ever got].



LKL
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04 Jan 2011, 6:51 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
I imagine most of the 9/11 victims if not all are now in heaven now.


This is one of the things I find repugnant about the religions that promise some sort of holy-land-in-the-sky after death: they don't value life. Death is just fine - to be welcomed, even, especially for innocents! - because the dead people are "with God."

Reminds me of the conquistadors who baptised native children and then slaughered them so that they could not grow up to be 'led astray' by their heathen parents.



Philologos
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04 Jan 2011, 8:57 pm

Let us also recall the missionaries who rescued and raised discarded children.

Of course, they also taught them about Christianity.

They would. Shamelessly taking advantage of children abandoned to die.



Sand
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04 Jan 2011, 9:28 pm

Philologos wrote:
Let us also recall the missionaries who rescued and raised discarded children.

Of course, they also taught them about Christianity.

They would. Shamelessly taking advantage of children abandoned to die.


When the missionaries came to Africa they had the Bible and we had the land. They said "Let us pray." We closed our eyes. When we opened them we had the Bible and they had the land.
Desmond Tutu



MasterJedi
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04 Jan 2011, 9:32 pm

didn't Mother Theresa once say that she hoped leprosy would never end because she wanted to continue having the hospices in Jakarta?


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ruveyn
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04 Jan 2011, 9:33 pm

MasterJedi wrote:
didn't Mother Theresa once say that she hoped leprosy would never end because she wanted to continue having the hospices in Jakarta?


She was such an evil b*tch.

ruveyn