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HerrGrimm
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31 Mar 2011, 3:19 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Well the USSR under Stalin was certainly not a friendly place to Jews. In any case an important lesson is that, sometimes the content of the information is not important, what is important is who is saying it. It does not necessarily seem logical, but unfortunately in practice does matter. Nobody wants to hear what Storm Front has to say, for a lot of good reasons, even though you probably had no bad intentions mentioning this article. If what you were saying is true (not here to debate that, just making a suggestion) there should be other, non-partisan sources you could cite. Citing Storm Front is just not going to win credibility

No, it definitely mattered. I stopped the argument because I got the opinion of another NS which was a common opinion on the board. Any other source would not have done it.

But in hindsight it probably was not a good idea...

EDIT: Oh, there appears to be a misunderstanding. When I mean NS, I mean ALL National Socialists. It is shorthand. If I wanted to use a specific name I would type it fully.

EDIT #2: I again would like to point out that I was accused of saying that Holocaust denial was intellectually honest, and the person refuses to apologize for it.

Telekon
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31 Mar 2011, 4:18 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:

Real witty, take the significance out of things. You already lost at your own game. Logic is a means to an end. It is a way of attaining a goal, not the goal itself. The goal of every action is emotional gratification.

But hey what do I know? My keyboard is just an object with a bunch of buttons. Never mind that those buttons are a means of communication. Words are just noises uttered from my mouth too, they can't possibly mean anything :roll:

I'm not sure what point you think you're making. It would be irrational to be sickened by keyboards and human languages too, if they're supposed to be analogous to hatred.

The poster said that he was sickened by their hate. But what is hatred? It's just a biochemical state in the body with no moral dimension. Is there something special about their hatred that makes it worthy of contempt, or should we be sickened by hatred in toto? Help me out here. I see a lot of moralizing in these threads without any rational grounding for it.

Quote:

Here's a hint: context illiteracy doesn't count as wit. It's just being disingenuous.

You can't play the Amazing Kreskin and claim to have autism. You don't know whether someone is being disingenuous (rather than simply being mistaken) from an internet post, just like you don't know what someone wants to think from an internet post. There are schizophrenic boards for people like yourself claiming to have psychic powers.

Telekon
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31 Mar 2011, 4:22 pm

Vilgans wrote:

The body chemistry is a reaction to outside stimuli. It is actually irrational to not have a problem with hatred. Hatred serves no goals, it just makes one into a miserable old miser willing to pick illogical fights with people

That would apply to everyone not just Stormfront posters. Hatred is a common human emotion; it's not like one group of people experience it. The question is why Stormfront posters interpret certain external stimuli differently than people who disagree with their views.

HerrGrimm
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31 Mar 2011, 4:36 pm

Telekon wrote:

Vilgans wrote:

Environment, especially economically. If you take a common demographic of NS/WN they would be middle-to-lower class. probably from blue-collar towns. NS promise nice things you want and don't have. That overrides being a Slav or having autism in that regard. A lot of NS live in Russia today, I think I heard like half of the entire NS population or something like that. They respond differently because they want to have what NS promise if they obey.

iamnotaparakeet
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31 Mar 2011, 5:12 pm

What is the actual situation? Could somebody answer this without speculation?

HereComesTheRain
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31 Mar 2011, 5:17 pm

Hate isn't an irrational emotion if you think about it. Hatred is simply anger towards a pattern that is harmful or fatal to an individual or group of people. I hate religious cultists because my family is in a cult. I hate pit bulls because I was attacked by one when I was 18. Should I get over my hatred of cults and rejoin my parent's cult? No. Should I go up and pet a pit bull in my neighborhood? No. They're trained to kill.

I can see where they get the core of their new membership from. A few of them live in areas where African-Americans, Mexicans and Mexican-Americans are the dominant ethnicity. The African-American community has had a hard time reigning in its problems with gang violence and criminal behavior and it's own racism towards white Americans, who are seen as acceptable targets because of America's history with slavery. Mexican-Americans are breaking our immigration laws, flooding the semi-skilled and low job skilled job rungs with cheap labor and pricing native born Americans out of the job market and our politicians are too afraid of being called "racist" . Violence and illegal immigration are both things that harm communities and should be fought to no end if we want to save our republic. However, scapegoating a community because of a blanket judgment is not the way to deal with those major problems. The best way to deal with those major problems is better law enforcement and maybe even a cultural shift where anti-social personalities that pervade those communities are discouraged.

This whole racism thing is illogical though, even though the root of it is very understandable. The reason why is because many white Americans probably can trace their roots to multiple places in Europe. My GF is Scottish and German, two ethnicities who would normally never interact with each other on a day to day basis except in the USA. Despite what WNers think, we're a multi-ethnic nation state and the whole concept of "whiteness" is an artificial social construct, not a natural one. In New Mexico, a white person could be somebody descended from Spanish settlers, In Texas, he could be German, in New York, he could be Italian-American, in Chicago, he could be Polish, or in Minnesota, he could be Scandinavian. They have very little in common ethnically other than they're all European.

HereComesTheRain
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31 Mar 2011, 5:19 pm

HerrGrimm wrote:

Telekon wrote:

Vilgans wrote:

In short form, you're saying it's a cult.

HerrGrimm
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31 Mar 2011, 5:25 pm

HereComesTheRain wrote:

In short form, you're saying it's a cult.

It's very hard to leave in one way or another. If by cult you mean people tricked into doing things for a better life which they promise, then yes I guess it is. If you can survive people stabbing you in the back whenever you do what someone does not like of course, especially from different groups in the same area. I recall the Texas gang wars where apparently one group was not white enough for the other.

John_Browning
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31 Mar 2011, 5:29 pm

HereComesTheRain wrote:

I can see where they get the core of their new membership from. A few of them live in areas where African-Americans, Mexicans and Mexican-Americans are the dominant ethnicity. The African-American community has had a hard time reigning in its problems with gang violence and criminal behavior and it's own racism towards white Americans, who are seen as acceptable targets because of America's history with slavery. Mexican-Americans are breaking our immigration laws, flooding the semi-skilled and low job skilled job rungs with cheap labor and pricing native born Americans out of the job market and our politicians are too afraid of being called "racist" . Violence and illegal immigration are both things that harm communities and should be fought to no end if we want to save our republic. However, scapegoating a community because of a blanket judgment is not the way to deal with those major problems. The best way to deal with those major problems is better law enforcement and maybe even a cultural shift where anti-social personalities that pervade those communities are discouraged.

Somebody in this discussion is finally on the right track. Interaction with minority communities is a far more fertile breeding ground for racism than any white supremacist propaganda campaign.

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HerrGrimm
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31 Mar 2011, 5:41 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Somebody in this discussion is finally on the right track. Interaction with minority communities is a far more fertile breeding ground for racism than any white supremacist propaganda campaign.

I assumed telling people to bash a scapegoat was part of the promise.

John_Browning
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31 Mar 2011, 5:45 pm

HerrGrimm wrote:

I assumed telling people to bash a scapegoat was part of the promise.

What scapegoat?

HerrGrimm
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31 Mar 2011, 5:51 pm

John_Browning wrote:

HerrGrimm wrote:

I assumed telling people to bash a scapegoat was part of the promise.

What scapegoat?

Depends on the area. In Nazi Germany it was Jews. In Russia it is basically anyone not Russian. Whoever or whatever is convenient in the area. I was thinking, "We can give you this, if you do _____ for us," like attack minorities for "stealing your job." It is an automatic thought I had and completely slipped my mind to even bring it up. I was thinking more of the manipulative aspect to get one to be a NS.

Am I missing something here? Are we talking about the same thing? It has been a long day for me.

EDIT: In Russia they actually tell minorities to not walk the streets on Hitler's birthday.

Last edited by HerrGrimm on 31 Mar 2011, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JakobVirgil
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31 Mar 2011, 6:01 pm

John_Browning wrote:

HereComesTheRain wrote:

Somebody in this discussion is finally on the right track. Interaction with minority communities is a far more fertile breeding ground for racism than any white supremacist propaganda campaign.

so is that how you became a racist?

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John_Browning
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31 Mar 2011, 6:02 pm

Are you thinking there is some central political movement behind individual people's issues with various ethnic groups?

JakobVirgil
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31 Mar 2011, 6:07 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Are you thinking there is some central political movement behind individual people's issues with various ethnic groups?

"central political movent" = conspiracy?
no I think it is emergent
I think that racism is an easy out for poor and working class and poor white folks
and defense of an inequitable status quo for rich white folks.
as well as a great red herring for the elite.

<preemptive statement minorities can be racsist too>

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John_Browning
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31 Mar 2011, 6:09 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:

John_Browning wrote:

HereComesTheRain wrote:

Somebody in this discussion is finally on the right track. Interaction with minority communities is a far more fertile breeding ground for racism than any white supremacist propaganda campaign.

so is that how you became a racist?

For the vast majority, yes- and pushing multiculturalism in schools often helps breed more genuine white supremacists than if the administrators left matters alone because administrators often create tensions where there previously were none.

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