Are women sexist against themselves?

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Yah I understand.



Well, that is somthing I am already doing. When I see that a woman on dating site has a long description of herself and such, I would try to pursue her because it seems she won't neceserely be looking for macho men. Furthermore, I am not paying attention to weight or anything like that. On the contrary, I wouldn't miss an opportunity to pursue a woman who is overweight because it means there are less competition. BUT THE POINT IS THAT NONE OF IT HELPS!! !



Even though I do have marriage in mind, obviously I am not mentioning it the first time I know someone. Like we all know, the first step is a relationship. So even though it is not a good prospect to MARRY to someone not compatible, there is nothing to lose by trying to be IN A RELATIONSHIP in order to FIND OUT for sure if the first impression was correct or not.



The fact that no one wants to date me implies that there is nothing good about me. After all, there is nothing to lose by trying something out. So, the only way to explain WHY no woman would try me out is that they know for 100% sure that there is nothing good about me. Furthermore, the fact that they are using ladder theory to judge me again implies that htey know for 100% sure that their judgement is correct -- after all, if it was only 99% then they would of been re-evaluating it from time to time. So since they don't, it HAS to be 100%.

That is also why even when I DID have a girlfriend back this summer it didn't stop me from obsessing about the women in the past who rejected me. After all, if someone wants to be with me, it doesn't mean that they are 100% sure that I am perfect. Trying something out is perfectly logical thing to do for people who are NOT sure. On the other hand, as for women who rejected me, then yes, they are 100% sure about hteir decision, since they aren't going back to re-evaluate it.

So following this line of thought, even if you are correct that there are two types of women, I would still take far more seriously the opinions of the ones who use ladder system. After all, THEY are the only ones who are SURE of their evaluation, since this is prerequisite for ladder system. And if THEY are so SURE that I am worthless, why should I be any less sure?



But the whole point is that as far as "handling things" no one knows what I can or can't do untill they DO come my way. So when someone says "hey you aren't confident THEREFORE you won't be able to handle X, Y, and Z" this is CONJECTURE. And the very thing about making CONJECTURES is precisely what hurts me the most, becaues the fact that they won't test them implies that someone has to be 100% sure about them rather than just 99% sure. If such is the case, then why should I be any less sure that I am a loser? After all, if there were anything they coulud of been missing, wouldn't they be only 99% sure rather than 100%? And in this case, what would of been there to lose by spending extra couple of days to test their assumptions?



As far as Anne goes, appart from her statement that I wasn't confident enough, she also said she weren't ready for a relationship untill later due to her recent recovery from bipolar. Now, if she weren't ready for a relaitonship, it means she weren't going to pursue someone else. And if she weren't going to pursue someone else, then I am back to the question of what IS the difference between having or not having a particular title?



I don't think this was a reason for my difficulty finding dates. At least I haven't seen anyone walking away the moment I told them that I don't believe in sex before marriage.



It is a religious thing. Also in light of end-time apostacy, the fact that most ppl do it doesn't mean it is okay. If I go back in time, the first 19 centuries ppl DIDN"T do it, so on grand scheme of things majority doesn't believe in sex before marriage. And then there is a verse that says that only FEW ppl are saved, Matt 7:13. So if I can't even keep up with MAJORITY of ppl up untill the last century, how would I ever be among the few? So yah thats basically why I don't believe in sex before marriage.



I also look strictly for relationship AS OPPOSED TO friendship. Especially after the thing about Anne who was a very close friend WITHOUT being in a relationship, I realized that the whole concept of friendship without relationship is about not wanting to give me credit. So ever since that time I made up my mind that I am either "in a relaitnoship" with woman X, or I am moving on. After all, if woman X is a stranger, then I don't have to ask why is it she doesn't want to give me title of a "boyfriend". But if she is a close friend, then the ineviteable conclusion is that she refuses to give me title just for a sake of "making a point" that I am not as "confident" as she would like me to be, and I find it offensive.

When I said I wasn't looking for specific type of relaitonship I was saying SOMETHING ELSE. Let me recover the conversation:

a)You said that a woman has a right to have her own life, etc

b)I responed that it is okay if someone wants to be single. I am strictly talking about the ones wanting relationship

c)You responded by saying "Not all women who refuse to be doormats are single"

d)So I responded by saying that I am NOT looking for specific type fo relationship (i.e. the one where woman is a dormant)



As for the ones who live with their parents, it would be a minority, so it won't cover most "nice guys".



I DO want to spend my life with whatever woman I am with. After all, given that I have such a hard time finding any, the only way to solve this problem once and for all is to stick to the first one I find.



Okay I understand.

Last edited by Roman on 05 Nov 2006, 9:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well since out of DOZENS AND DOZENS of women I talked to only 5 actually worked past the first couple of weeks, math tells me that this thing goes across all the types of women that exist.



So why can't a woman sit down and re-think her instincts. I mean, even if one thinks about it for 5 minutes, it is already obvious that today no one has to hunt. So the bottom line is that women DON"T think about it. And why don't they? Because they are 100% sure that their instincts are right. And if they are 100% sure about their instincts, why should I be any less sure?



Actually dating tips tell me that giving women flowers is a BAD thing, because it makes me a "nice guy".



That goes contrary to what dating tips tell me.

Hmm. How long have you been looking, out of curiousity? How old are you?



Alright, that makes sense.



Lol... no. It doesn't mean there's nothing good about you. Were I single, there's a lot of guys I wouldn't date for one reason or another who have nothing "wrong" with them per se... it's more a matter of personal compatibility. I'm sure they'd make fine husbands for some woman out there, it's just that our interests and habits wouldn't mesh well.



Let me put it like this. Suppose I were single, and looking. There's this single guy who is a neat freak, can't stand people who smoke, and has no interest in psychology, sociology, gaming, or politics. Instead, he's mostly into cars, sports, and working out.

Are we going to get along? No.

Does that necessarily mean there's anything "wrong" with either of us? No. But dating each other would be pointless, because the relationship simply wouldn't go anywhere. In fact, we'd spend most of our time alternately boring the hell out of each other and telling each other off. There's just no compatibility there.



You can visit virtually any sizeable mental institution in this nation, and find dozens of people who are 100% sure they're the second coming of Christ. Someone being sure doesn't make it true. They're working with a lot of false and illogical assumptions, and being mistaken at the top of one's voice doesn't make one any less mistaken.

Don't fall into the trap of relying on others to give or withhold your own self worth... that never ends well. By and large people are self-obsessed as*holes who will say and do whatever they figure they can get away with, men and women alike.



Forgive me for what I'm about to say, but perhaps they're ... not quite as desperate as yourself? When people see themselves as having many potential romantic partners, why would they test a "99% chance it won't work out" long shot, instead of one with better odds? They might not be 100% sure with you, they just think they've got better odds with someone else? That might be what's going on there.



The difference lies in whether or not she'll feel free to pursue someone, when she's finally ready to enter the dating pool again. If she already has the "Roman's Girlfriend" title, she couldn't without cheating on you or breaking up with you first.



It does narrow the field a bit, though... you can't deny that. I mean, knowing that he's not going to try and jump your bones right away is comforting the first few dates, but after you've been together awhile most women will start thinking, "Ok, ok... I get the point. You're a gentleman. Now can we f**k?" lol



Heh, in medieval times people did whatever they figured they can get away with, be it droit de signeur, a nobleman keeping whatever mistresses he fancied, or even just another peasant banging the wife when her husband wasn't looking. Human nature and the drives behind it haven't really changed much... it's social norms that have.

Then again, I'm a pagan heretic, so of course your mileage will vary.



Romantic relationship also implies a sexual attraction between the two people involved, though. Even if you're planning on saving it for marriage, the "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" titles still connotate sexual attraction. Perhaps Anne is not sexually attracted to you, hence why she doesn't want those sorts of titles?



Sigh. Alright, let me ask you something which at first glance will appear completely and utterly unrelated to the matter at hand. What do you like doing? What sorts of hobbies and interests do you have? Do you not get some measure of self-worth from your hobbies, and displaying competence at your areas of interest?

Last edited by Hazelwudi on 06 Nov 2006, 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Where do you normally look? Are you a college student? I'm curious now.



For the same reason a number of men can't stop periodically staring at tits, to be perfectly crass about it.



Because being sure doesn't necessarily make you right. Neo-Nazi dorks are 100% convinced that blacks and jews are worthless. Are they right about blacks and jews? No.



Most of those dating tips were written by bitter and confused men who are trying to generalize their experiences with borderline ret*d bleach-blond bimbos to women as a whole... I'd take it with a grain of salt, frankly. I always liked flowers, but prefer to be already romantically involved with the man before flowers are given. Otherwise, it's like the guy is coming on way too fast, you know?

Right now I am 26 and I was looking since I was 22.

Up untill I was 21 I was thinking that school is a sole criteria for success in life and for that reason I never had an apportunity to see that I lack social skill, simply becaues I never intended to have friends on the first place. I was living in a cloud because I didn't know a single name or face of anyone other than my family and such, I also never learned to drive, never had a job, etc. Any of these things would be "waste of time" that could have been used for school, and for that reason I didn't have any hobbies either, I rarely watched TV if at all, and it was a hard work for my mom to make me go to the movie. Likewise, a lot of effort was put in order to force me NOT to take as many classes as I was allowed to, and also to perswade me NOT to make it a point to graduate early, but nothing worked.

This whole situation has changed at 21 when I joined mailing list for University Students with Autism and Asperger Syndrome by Clare Seinsbury where I was banned from. I guess that was the first time I had an aportunity to see how it feels to be "welcome" but I haven't appreciated it untill it was taken away. So ever since that time I was chasing "substitutes" for that mailing list. In particular, I finally agreed to join Jewish club on campus that my mom was pushing me to join for a few years. But this only lead me to be hurt even more since I found it virtually impossible to start or continue a conversation.

Now, in the Jewish club my poor social skills drew a lot of attention to me to the point that the dirrector of the club didn't allow me to go to the trip to Israel that was arranged for people in the club and others. So that was when I got an idea that I was worthless, since my mere presence in a trip is such a horrible thing that they had to prevent it despite the fact that I haven't broken any rules or such. Also, since I was naive, I asked a director a question how come no one complained about any of it to me. And the director told me that ppl won't complain, they would just stop talking to me. So this answer gave me an idea that I need to find at least one person who would talk to me in order to disprove the concept that I am worthless.

So then in 2002 I got an email add of dating sites so I quickly joined them because I thought they would be a magic answer to my querry of finding people who would talk to me. But they hurt me even more, since typically they would stop talking to me after first few minutes. In Jewish club they simply walked to the other site of a room, while on dating site they would close a window or even block me. So, this simply shifted ALL of my focus on the dating site business to the point that I no longer even went to any club or even attempted to socialize elsewhere. My sole criteria of self-judgement was whether or not people are talking to me on that site.

As far as actually thinking of relaitonship, I never even considered a possibility since why would anyone ever choose me instead of someone else? This mindset has changed when my first girlfriend, Sarah, started a relationship with me herself on a second date, which was a big surprise. That relationship started in October 2003 and ended in August 2004. So, ever since it ended I was on my search for relatioship AS OPPOSED TO friendship in order not to feel like I lost something because of my mistakes with Sarah.

I guess my attitude towards friendship was still "something is better than nothing". But this too had changed in Spring 2005 when I met Anne. Anne was close friend with me but she didn't want to give me title of a boyfriend, so from that point on I equated a concept of friend with someone you are refusing to give title to, and that was when I was strictly looking for "a relationship".

But the whole situation about the fact that I don't know anyone's names or faces and don't have any life hasn't changed. I merely dirrected all of my focus on this dating site business thinking that, even if I still won't have any life otherwise, at least I would be able to mentally point to the one girlfriend that I have each time I question myself about things. So I guess even though I am 26, I am very naive because I have nothing to relate to other than a very narrow and rather exotic set of events in my own life.



In such a case, being friends will be pointless as well. But when it comes to Anne, yes she DID wanted to be friends with me, as long as she doesn't have to call me "boyfriend".

I know later in your reply you said she might not have been attracted to me. But the point is that she approached me herself in math class and later she told me that she was looking at me long before she ever approached me. Her reason for not wanting a relationship is that based on what I told her about my mom and my ex, I weren't independant or confident. So that is what gave me an idea that it isn't about attraction but rather about JUDGEMENT and giving credit.



Yah but perswading myself that most people are mentally ill isn't a healthy thing to do either. This would through me into Cartesian doubts "what if I am sleeping" or "what if I am hallucinating".

I have already went that route. I tried to take some of the biblical passages where Jesus was demonising "the world" and i tried to apply it to ppl who judge me. At first it worked. But eventually it only made me walk around asking myself questions such as "am I allowed to go to school or do groceries since world is so demonic". I only recently recovered from this, so I am NOT going back there.

So, given the above, lets just postulate that most people are NOT wrong. In this case the logical conclusion is that yes I DO have to take their opinion seriously.



You said yourself that it is "by and large". This means that it isn't exclusive statement. So among dozens of people I talked to, surely at least SOME of them are not "self-obsessed as*holes". As a matter of fact I can pull from my memory people who were really nice to me, including all of my ex-s, and many others, but eventually stopped talking to me anyway because they judged me based on the most unexpected thing I did by accident. As for right now, I can't think of a single person who still talks to me. So how is it "by and large"? The only way of keeping my chin up is to say that "everyone" is an as*hole. But this won't cut it either because I can't call my ex-s as*holes, or else why did they bother to start with.



But the point is that as long as these are POTENTIAL romantic partners, it won't be cheating to pursue all of them, untill you are committed. So they could have pursued me ALONG WITH others untill they are sure 100% of choosing a right one.




Yah, this happened with two of my ex-s (Sarah and Andrea), but once again in neither case it was a reason for a breakup. From time to time they were trying to perswade me to have sex, and I declined, but it didn't lead to any kind of crisis.



Well, still enough people were against it, otherwise they won't have to hide as they did it.



What is your religion, just curious




Like I told you earlier, she was looking at me in math class long before she approached me. So obviosuly she WAS attracted. Her reason not to date was that I weren't confident. But lack of confident wasn't an obstacle for interaction either, since she was perfectly willing to be close friend. So if it is neither friendship part, nor attraction part, then what CAN it be? The only thing I can think of is not being willing to "give me credit" for being "confident" which I am not, and this is just offensive.



Like I said up untill I was 21, I was viewing my career as something I was getting self worth from. Up untill that point I did great. I only spent 3 years in high school instead of 4, and likewise I only spent 3 years in college instead of 4. Within 3 years in high school I finished first 3 years of college math and first 2 years of college physics. So the reason I had to spent 3 years in college is mainly to get all the breadth requirenments, and meanwhile, while still in college, I have completted 8 graduate level courses, 4 in math and 4 in physics.

Starting from 21 on, it all changed because once I started graduate school coures were no longer important, but research was. So part of it is that it took for me a couple of years to realize that this was the case, which means they were wasted for doing couress that don't mean that much any more. And secondly, I never actually made a transition from courses to research in a sense that in coures I am expected to understand everything line by line, while in research I am supposed to skim things, which I never learned how to do. And also the transfer from one graduate school to another ate some time since I had to spend a year to get my master's in order to have something to show in my application, and also I had to do coursework from scratch in a new graduate school (although requirenments were lowered since I had masters)

Another part of it is that I insisted on doing topic I "didn't agree with philosophically", which is string theory, so instead of studying it the way I was supposed to I instead did a lot of "revision work" where I tried to "rewrite" the concepts involved in my own way which lead to 5 unpublished papers. Right now it is my third year in the new school, but since I also spent 3 years in old one it is overall my sixth year and I am yet to pass my candidacy. My life saver is that I have just discovered an area of research where only 20 people work worldwide. So this means that since not much is done, I don't have to learn to "skim"; I have plenty of time to read it line by line. THere were only few papers published worldwide. But unfortunately it only happened now, which is overall my 6-th year of graduate school, so I am way way behind.

Furthermore, I told my advisor that these 20 people are wrong and I am going to do it differently and he actually approved of a particular way I was planning on doing it differently. Then I took it further and said that since I am doing it differently from others, I am free to invent whatever I want within a framework of my new approach. In particular, I decided to encorporate half of my "revisions" of physics that I was doing in the past in my attempts to understand concepts in research papers I disagreed with. Back then they were just revisions, but right now I am finally finding use to them.

Actually part of me thinks that this whole obsession with dating business might well have been an escape behavior, especially since it coincided with the time I started graduate school. But then again, the seeds were planted on that mailing list I was banned from, which was my last semester of UNDARGRADUATE program. So the fact that it coincided with graduate school is just a coincidence.But then who knows, may be these two things feed into each other. If school was doing better, it would of definitely been helpful in terms of switching my focus AWAY from whatever was bothering me socially.

Right now, there is HOPE that this might happen -- at least it worked during October, which is the first MONTH when I had this wonderful prospect. But right now I finally finished a piece of work and submitted it to my advisor, and I haven't heard from him. So I am now worried that I might have confused him since I had too many ideas that were too speculative and too far off. So, I guess this threw me back to my escape behaviors.

Another hting is that during October I werne't actually facing anyone who was rejecting me AT THE MOMENT. So thats why it was easier to look at it from the distance and tell myself that school can make up for self worth part, and I am still "good". But the moment I would think that "okay I am good now lets make myself even better by finding a date", I would again face rejection and this would totally kill my self esteem at least for few days.

Well I guess right now it only lasts few days as opposed to few months, which is defnitely better than before, but still I can't honestly say I have completely recovered from it. After all, the encounters lasted only few days to start with, so no wonder it only took few days to get past them. The only way to actually keep me from dating sites is to be consumed with the project CONSTANTLY. It is actually easilly done during the first few weeks I am thinking about a given problem, since the amount of ideas that I have basically FORCE me to do just that. But if I actually reach a success point, then ineviteably I would want to take a break to reward myself. On the other hand, if I am stuck on something, then I would want to do escape behavior. In either of these two cases this brings me right back to dating sites.

Up untill the end of last spring I used to look on www.americansingles.com and www.dreammates.com But right now I can no longer afford dating sites that cost money since I was only financially supported for the first 2 years I was at school. Now that it is my third year I am supposed to be supported by research group, which I am yet to join. So right now I can no longer afford paying for my dating sites, so I go to a one I have for free which is www.collegeluv.com but unfortunately it isn't nearly as popular as the other two and to make it worse most ppl there are black so basically there are only 2 or 3 new white members in my area every month, even though by "my area" I mean radius of 100 miles since I am desperate. So I guess if there are 2 or 3 people a month, each time I screw up I have another month to agonize about it.

Now, even though it is my sixth year, it is actually the very first semester when I don't have financial support. Since I spent first three years in Minnesota, the fact that I am being supported for the "first two years" actually means that I was BOTH supported for 1-st and 2-nd year AND I was also supported for 4-th and 5-th year (since these are actually 1-st and 2-nd as of Michigan). Furthermore, during my 3-rd year in Minnesota the department managed to get me grant which was good. So the bottom line is that right now is the first time I am not supported. So closer to business, this semester is the ONLY one when I am not paying for dating sites. Up untill now I was a solid member of both americansingles and dreammates.



This doesn't apply to me. I am not staring at women's tits.



Once again, equating MOST people wiht Neo Nazi would drive me crazy if I take it seriously.



David DeAngelo is NOT bitter. He claimes that IN THE PAST he had terrible dating life. But AT SOME POINT he learned "a secret" and now women are all over him.

Where are these geeky women you speak of?

Rare creatures indeed..

Sorry for the lag between replies, rl is somewhat hectic right now.

Ah. Just wondering.



For me, the whole friends thing just sort of happens. Or well, it's not precisely friendship, but it is close enough for field work. Heh. It's all good.

I wonder if I was luckier than most on the spectrum. My single most enduring obsession has been humanity... human nature, the societies they make, their thoughts, their behaviors, their feelings (genuine and feigned), their rationalizations (thin though they often are)... I've been by turns fascinated and horrified by this my whole life. For me, my obsession, my academic career, and my social life interwove themselves into one coherent whole.

No offense intended, but I suspect that "talking to people is a waste of time" was an ego defense mechanism for you, even at the time. And people on the spectrum have egos too, just like more normative individuals... and they are every bit as desirous of protecting the integrity of the ego as said normative individuals.

Deep down, you considered it a certainty that people would react negatively to you if you interacted socially with them, is it not so? They'd ignore you, pick at you, or otherwise react negatively to you. In order to avoid that, it's easier to rationalize socializing away as being "a waste of time" rather than run the risk.



Why'd you get banned, out of curiosity?



Jewish club, eh? Have you made much study of the Kabbalah? It seems people who have are quite rare these days.



You're not worthless... you just need to learn social skills, yes? Believing yourself worthless would be decidely counterproductive to your goal.

Believes self worthless ==> No self-confidence ==> avoids social interaction ==> lessened interaction ==> no improvement in social skills ==> believes self worthless.

You've got a vicious cycle going here.



To give others such power over your self-worth is the harbinger of disaster. And deep down, you know that.



Even if you continued to search out friendship, you didn't lose something in your prior endeavor. You gained valuable experience.



And what are those?



Hehe, I've been friends with people whom I've had little in common with before... even with those whose values I found lacking, whose intellect I found subpar, and whose lifestyle I found repugnant. Or they considered me a friend.... I considered them an informal case study, but I've always treated my lab rats (actual and metaphorical) fairly well.

I might be inhuman, but I am not inhumane. There's a difference. heh.



... oh, now you can't skid around it on two wheels like that! What about your ex and your mom?



Rofl... if you want to consider human nature a mental illness, be my guest. I used to... in many ways, I still do. When I was younger and more idealistic, I used to think that perhaps I would learn how to fix it. Unfortunately, the problem is not in the "software"... the "nurture" side of the age old nature/nurture debate. The problem is in the hardware and is beyond any mortal ability to repair.



And what if you are? So long as that is your world, does it really matter if you are or not?



If the laws (natural, moral, and otherwise) of the Creator exist anywhere, it should be within the creation. So why not experience that creation, study it, and observe it, so one might hopefully discover what those laws are?



In other words, you're going to be pragmatic about it because there's billions of them and only one of you.

It still doesn't make it true, it only serves to clarify what others expect.



"By and large" was primarily a statement injected so as not to offend the readership. Very, very few people like to admit that they're that way, also.... even though they are.

I generally don't wield that particular psychological scalpel unless justice compels me to. >:)

... or until I am forced to, as you just did. One wonders if you are a masochist. lol

All that aside, what is this "unexpected thing I did by accident" you're speaking of?



A lot of people don't operate that way... particularly women. (Some women do, they're colloquially known as "sluts", lol.)



What was the reason, then?



Same thing as always... people make the socially appropriate noises and the socially correct times to seem "good", and then do as they damned well please whenever they figure they can get away with it. Like I said, human nature hasn't changed.



There's so much of it drawn from so many different religions and schools of thought that there's no word to summarize it. Basically, all the things which were born out through logical thought, made sense, and were in line with my experiences from all the various philosophies and religions I have studied were put together to make one framework. That which made no sense, that which was illogical, that which was nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt at social control, etc. was discarded.



Perhaps she finds your physical appearance sexually attractive, but considers your personality to be unattractive? This would explain it, and it's certainly not an uncommon phenomenon.



At least now, things are working out for you in that regard? I always thought that was annoying... fifty reams of (mostly) crap, that you've got to go through for research papers, particularly if you intend on trying to get it published.



Quite possibly, and worsened by stress no doubt. The whole business of applying, interviewing, etc. to get into grad school is pretty damned stressful. Couple this with the fact that the list was the only place you were socializing... yeah. To have your social support network snatched from beneath your feet during such a time couldn't have been pleasant. I can see why you responded with the intensity you did.



Quite possibly. Perhaps you should call him, or drop by his office? Maybe it's not you, it could just as easily be that he's snowed under from sorting through all the midterm stuff from the undergrads.



Like most people, being emotionally overwrought does no justice to your typing.

Frankly, your self-worth seems to me to be quite variable based upon your current surroundings. You're confident enough to stand up and say that some of the most educated people in your field are mistaken in their views, and write papers to that effect.

However, if you put yourself in front of a girl you're hoping to impress, you just fly to pieces.

Is it not so?



Deep down, you have a need for social interaction, just like everyone else. Do you have any hobbies? Perhaps you could find like-minded individuals in real life, through clubs devoted to a hobby of yours? And what about the physics department in your school?

Last edited by Hazelwudi on 15 Nov 2006, 12:59 am, edited 3 times in total.

What about the women you know in real life? Are there any women you know from your academic career? Yes, I know there's not many women in the hard sciences at the graduate level, but there's usually at least a couple floating around.



You never stare at women's tits.... ok, you're either an incredibly rare guy or lying. lol



Why? Think of the evolutionary functionality of the ingroup/outgroup mentality, and all the assumptions, selective perception, rationalization, and cruelty which typically go with it.

Come now... can you honestly say they are not like that? If you lock ten people in a room for an hour, they might not pick a leader... but I guarantee they'll pick someone to hate. Even one's upbringing doesn't seem to change it in the slightest... it only serves to define what group(s) are "acceptable" targets of the impulse.



Given his endless derogatory commentary about women, it's obvious that he's got more 'issues' than you could count on a long afternoon. I'd call him incredibly bitter, yes.

To be brutually frank, his "secret" (which is little more than "be a chauvinistic neanderthal, chicks really dig that") is BS, at best. Women who go for chauvinistic neanderthals aren't not good for anything but a 'hit it and quit it' f*ck, because they're so shallow and neurotic that they're intolerable in anything but the smallest possible doses.

They are rare compared to their male counterparts, yes. However, they do exist. I'm one, although I'm already taken. lol :p

And goddamn, his D&D books get everywhere. All over the house. I prefer some of White Wolf's stuff myself, particularly second editions of Mage, the Ascension and Vampire, the Masquerade. The parts of those game lines covering the Dark Ages were pretty cool too. I just can't seem to get into their more recent offerings, though. Exalted was ok, but I can't help but feel their present Vampire and Mage lines lack the depth and richness of the older game lines.

And Hol. If memory serves, White Wolf put that out too, under their Black Dog label. You got to admit that Hol was hilarious!

Some MMO's are cool too, although they've got a tendency to eat your life if you don't watch it. I played Asheron's Call 1 for years, and have played WoW off and on since it was released. I'm a chronic insomniac, and when I can't sleep it helps me enjoyably while away the wee morning hours.

So yes, I'm a geek. Thank you for noticing. lol

Hmmn..

I think my problem is I continue to be attracted to girls with serious issues...

I help them a LOT, in fact the most recent one didn't know how to cry, she couldn't do anything but repress her feelings.

No matter how much I help though, if she's not in the mood to talk to me, she won't say "cya later" or "I'm busy" she'll say "f**k off you bastard stop harrassing me I'll call the cops"

Its strange because she doesn't actually remember doing such things...

Either she is BPD or simply horrible..

My question is how the hell do I get her out my head!?

I try distractions, I try fulfilling my desires, but I continue to get ideas for things I NEED to tell her..

This is how ridiculous I am, I rang her over 200 times today, when she didn't even want to talk to me...

Its hard to explain, its all or nothing, so if she can't at least be nice to me every day, I can't handle it at all.

Thats cool



So speaking of your statement that you are "luckier than most on the spectrum", are you trying to say that due to your obsession with human nature you were able to channel otherwise-aspi trait into improving social skills, which pays back on a long run? I guess I am kind of guessing what you are trying to say but not really sure, so I am just double checking.



I guess it is hard for me to see it that way, mainly because I was sheltered throughout my life. Most people I had a chance to interact were my mohter's friends, so I obviously felt welcome. But still it didn't stop me from actively resisting my mom each time she tried to make me spend time with her friends, because that would be a "disraction to my studies". Also, I never viewed my mother's firends as any kind of exception. On the contrary, I was taking their behavior as normal and was assuming that everyone would treat me that way.

This is probably why I was hurt so much on that mailing list. Since I was expecting everyone to shelter me the way my mohter's firends did, I obviously felt betrayed the moment it turned out not to be the case. From where I am sitting right now, I was only on htat list for less than 2 weeks so the whole thing wasn't such a big deal on the first place. The only reason that I was so much hurt was really the fact htat it was the first time in my life I EVER had a chance to feel hurt.

So the point is that socialization with my mohter's friends was also "waste of valuable time" even though it was safe environment. I guess you might try and say that something was ingrained into my subconsciousness back at the time I was teased at school. But again, I really don't think I was hurt back then either. First of all, I was only teased back in Russia (because in Russia kids are less disciplined than in USA), which obviously ended at 14 when I moved to USA. Speaking of Russia, my parents told me exactly which kids were "good" and which were "bad", so I don't remember taking teasing personally. There were a couple of "good" kids that became "bad", but I simply viewed it as them "switching sides", which haven't changed a general framework.

On top of that, during some of the literature classes in Russia sometimes the subject was to discuss interaction of kids with each other, and for obvious reasons in many cases it involved me. It was always spelled out that there is nothing wrong with me other htan the fact that I am "different" and the bullies are the ones who need to grow up. Given that the teacher was an authority as opposed to my bullies, I weren't taking any bullying personally either.

Once again, may be part of my problems right now is that I am used to viewing these discussions as "normal", but right now there is no one who would engage in them. At the times when I did do something wrong, I would always be told in a lot of detailes exactly why I shouldn't have done it -- and this is true both in Russia as well as with my mother's friends well after I moved to USA. Furthermore, every single time I was told I did something wrong, it was always an example of bad behavior as opposed to social ignorance.

From where I am sitting right now I know that both my mom and her friends knew what my difficulties were, and that was why they made sure not to impose too high standarts or whatever. But back then I simply took for granted BOTH the fact that I never make any mistakes unless I do it on purpose, and also that whenever I do make mistake other people have to explain to me exactly why it was a mistake (even though explanation was self obvious).

So thats probably why that mailing list was such a shock, because it was the first time I was simply thrown into cold without any explanations or anything. I guess looking back the list owner DID engage with me in lengthy email exchanges and stuff before she finally gave up. So if it was today I would of said that she was one of the most patient people I met. But the point is that back then it was really my first interaction with anyone other than my mom and her friends. So, from my former frame of reference, the fact that it has ended at all was "insensitive", no matter how much time and patience was spent untill then.

And as far as Jewish club, once again I simply haven't had anything in my history that would of helped me to make sense of it. I couldn't say they were "bad" because "bad" kids were the ones who teased me, and no one at the Jewish club was teasing me. Furthermore, the dirrector of the Jewish club was on THEIR side, which is a further evidence that none of them was "bad".

On the other hand, if I stick to the fact htat their opinion is valid hten *I* had to be the one who is not only bad but downright horrible. After all, throughout my life whenever I made a mistake there were long explanations, but here in Jewish club the dirrector haven't engaged in any disputation with me longer than few minutes so it had to be SO bad that it was self obvious. On the other hand, in the past whenever I was told I was "bad" it was always a purposeful act on my part, which ment I could change the moment I choose so; but here in the Jewish club I was trying my best to be "good". So this got me stuck on "what am I supposed to do" mode.

Anyway I really don't think the whole thing about "waste of time" is a defense mechanism, simply because it dates much earlier. Basically it has 2 components to it: the fact that I lack interest in others, and hte fact that I am obsessed with school. The former goes back to when I was 3 year old when I was living in fantasy world and werne't socializing with kids unless parents made some special effort to engage me. As for the physics, it dates back to when I was 9 when I decided to become a physicist after watching movie on lazers. As for teasing, it only started when I already had my mind set on doing physics and nothing else.

Furthermore, my neglecting socialization in favor of school was probably part of bigger parttern of my singling out ONE thing to rate myself on. Even within the realm of school I went to the extreme of saying that the ONLY thing that matters is how many years I am ahead of a program AS OPPOSED TO my GPA or anything else for that matter.

This was actually one of the reasons I had to suffer once I was in graduate school, because I was blindly choosing classes based on their "level" and weren't paying attention to whether or not they are relevent to the particular area of physics in which I wanted to specialize. So on the surface everything looked great since wihtin space of 3 years I took a number of graduate level classes, but when I started graduate school I crushed heads with the fact that I knew almost nothing about the area of physics I said I was going to be an expert on.

So I guess as far as neglecting socialization it is the same exact mistake. I was basically living in my own imaginary world where I set up my own criteria to evaluate myself on, and I was happy watching myself doing amaizingly well according to my own criteria (that is, a number and level of courses), and taking everything else for granted -- whether it be academic OR social. But hten when I started graduate school, all of a sudden I was confronted about ALL of the things I used to neglect (both social and academic) and every single such realization was a big shock for me.



Basically I started off from a wrong foot because the list owner happened to have participated on another message board where I participated few years prior to joining that list.

So back at that other message board I was describing "making experiments" on severely autistic and Down's kid named Jonathan whom I ran into in high school. The purpose was to ask people why did he respond negatively given that, as a severely autistic, he is supposed to lack theory of mind and therefore shouldn't be able to understand that I was making fun of him or viewing him in negative light altogether. Each time I was told that autistics do have feelings I was asssuming that they misunderstood the severely of Jonathan's autism so I simply made more and more posts describing his simptoms in more details.

Predictably, from the point of view of others on that message board, I was just making excuses in order to convince them that there was nothing wrong with my behavior. But the truth of a situation is that I weren't even thinking in these terms. My main intention was case study in order to gain better understanding of autism. First part of case study were actual experiments, and the second part was discussion of the results on the message board. Of course, none of the negative reaction was a surprise; in fact I more or less expected it. But given my mind set back then the whole thing about offending people was simply irrelevent. After all, it was my first MONTH I EVER used internet, so I viewed the people there as "abstracts" and all the negative comments weren't really dirrected at me but only at abstract "Roman", and there are thousands of people with name Roman.

Anyway, it kept going on for over a year and a lot of people were mad at me. Now Clare, the owner of the mailing list I have joined few years down the road, happened to have participated at that message board. So when I tried to join a mailing list she didn't let me join until I had a long discussion with her where I was supposed to explain to her why I won't be repeating any of the inappropriate behavior I was doing in that message board. When she finally did subscribe me on that list, she refused to send me the list of introductions (which is normally being sent the moment each person gets subscribed) because she was afraid that if she would have to ban me few days down the road then my having list of intros would compromise privacy of the list. So she said that she would wait for a few weeks and send me list of intros when it is clear that i was going to stay.

Anyway, once I was on that list my main purpose was to do a case study on Asperger as well as get some of my general questions answered. I guess partly it was simply that due to my rather limitted experience with internet I weren't aware of a concept of "support group" and was viewing internet as information-dirrected. I guess after few days of participation I finally did realize that, but I still thought of it as irrelevent as far as my own intentions are concerned. So basically I started off my participation on the list with a lot of technical questions about consistency of DSM 4 as well as its applicability to Donna Williams among other people I read about. Most of my questions were based on black or white mindset, which I can't help. But some people interpreted it to be a prejudice and took offense at some of what I asked.

I guess what was behind it is a simple fact that I didn't know anyone with the condition up untill I joined the list. At the same time, I had done a lot of studying on autism and other mental disorders in Barns and Noble. So I took a lot of things to be textbook facts. But it turned out that some of them were actually "controversial" and often viewed as prejudices NT-s have against aspies, but I was simply unaware of it. After all, I was comming from math and physics and htere is no such thing as prejudice in any of these fields. So whenever people were to stop me and question some of my assumptions, I simply viewed it as them not following some concrtete steps of my logic, since that is what often happened in math or physics classes; so I simply started to spell out everything I was saying in more detailes, just to clarify my logic; but in their eyes I looked like a stubborn person with a lot of prejudices.

The last straw that broke camel's back was when I posted a lot of speculations about relation between autism and racial differences. I basically started off by saying that Jews rock their body back and forth during prayers, just like autistics are rocking, so may be founders of Judaism were autistic and since autism weren't known back then their need of rocking was interpretted as messages from God. In fact, in history there are times when autistics are elevated to the status of prophets, for instance "blessed fools" in Russia might be one such example. So I claimed that the same might have happened among founders of Judaism. This would also explain why Judaism has such strict religious rules and a lot of legalism, because this, too, is something autistics might want. Exclusivity of Jewish culture might be paralleled to exclusivity of autistic culture.

From that point I went on to say that may be Jews are genetically more predisposed to autism. So, even though the percentage of clinically autistic Jews is still small, it is a little bit larger than the percentage of clinically autistic gentiles and thus they had more influence on the culture. If such is indeed the case, then from genetic point of view it is possible that non-autistic majority of Jews might still be posessing *some* of autism-genes and thus suffer from shaddow simptoms of autism. This would explain why eugenic studies show that Jews have larger brain than other races, and at the same time researches on autism have shown that autistics have larger brain size than NT-s.

I then made a claim that the reason races with larger brain are smarter than races with smaller brain is NOT because they have more neurons but instead because they are more autistic than smaller-brain races, and mathematical abilities are side-benefit of autism. To support that point I have pointed out that despite the fact that Jews are so successful in math and science, they have been doing miserably in terms of the fact that they couldn't resist pogroms and holocaust, and neither were they able to obtain land within 2 millenia until it was finally given to them, and even now they can't really fight for themselves without America's help. At the same time, Jews won half of the nobel prizes. So the only way to explain why they do so wonderfully academically and so horribly otherwise is to say that they are autistic as a race.

I guess what might contradict this is the fact that Jews are in positions to control media and government. But the point is that Jews only became in control after the holocaust. Now if you ask yourself what allowed holocaust to happen, we would run on the fact htat if Jews were to have their own land, it would of been much harder to kill them off. And why didn't they have their land? Because of their autism. Furthermore, even now that they are in a situation, the fact htat only FEW German soldiers could deal with SIX MILLION Jews implies that Jews can't fight. Why not? Again, the answer is autism. At the same time we recall that Holocaust is the very thing that gave Jews power that we see today. In other words, it goes like this: Jews are autistic ==> Jews are helpless ==> others feel sorry for them ==> their simpathizers give them anything they want ==> this puts them in position of power.

Another thing to note is that, even when left to themselves, their cultural exclusivity would compensate for autism. If 10 people are supposed to run a race, and only one of them is actually running, then OF COURSE he is going to come first, even if he is actually the slowest runner of all of them. Now, speaking of exclusivity, it is perfectly compatible with autism. After all, Temple Grandin have stated that if not for autisitcs, then we would be all living in caves. Such statement is influenced by the fact that autistics aern't able to understand NT-s and thus htey are forced to mis-interprete them as "stupid". It is quite likely that similar statemetns made in Talmud are also influenced by the autism of its writers, and the fact that the autistic writers of the Talmud only refered to NT gentiles as dogs as opposed to NT Jews, this confirms the assertion that even the Jews who are NT are still suffer from shaddow simptoms of autism. And "shaddow" is all we need, after all, a lot of autistics might actually like their NT pears "as long" as they are shy enough, or quiet enough or whatever.

So far I have covered "bigger-brain" part of the bell curve. On the other end of a line you have blacks, who have smaller brains. So, according to this picture, blacks are ultra-NT so to speak. So, even though whites are not as autistic as Jews are, they are still more autistic than blacks, and this allowed them to do better in math and sciences and this put forth seeds of why European civilization was ahead of African. Now we have apparent contradiction. On the one hand, Jews were such an easy victims for Nazis and others because they were too autistic, and on the other hand blacks didn't succeed because they weren't autisitc enough. So the way to sum it up is that you need "healthy medium" in order to succeed in life, and Whites are the closest to that medium. On the other hand, away from that medium you have "splinter skills". On the ultra-NT end you have blacks who are good in sports and in Jazz, and on autistic end you have Jews and Asians who are good in sciences.

In light of a bell curve, if Whites are in the middle it really means that FEW of them are autistic like Isaac Newton and the other FEW of them are ultra NT. So Whites have both scientists from autistic end and warriors from ultra-NT end, which adds up to them being able to build successful countries. On the other hand Jews have A LOT of scientists from autistic end (half of Noble Prize winners are Jewish) but they don't have any warriors. BUt blacks have lots of sport stars from ultra NT end, but they don't have any scientists, so, no matter how strong they are, they can't fight because there weren't any autistic scientists to invent guns. But Whites, being in the middle, have a little bit of everything, and that is probably what helps them.

So anyway, back to what happened on that list, when I have posted that theory everyone were angry at me and the list owner asked me to apologise. Now, I knew that if I won't cooperate I would probably be banned. But the point is that I couldn't predict how much it would hurt. On the contrary, I had midterms approaching and I felt that I was addicted to that mailing list. I was trying all kinds of tricks to limit my time on the list, such as posting announcements how I will only be posting between 9 AM and 10 AM, and none of these tricks really worked. So I thought that if I would be banned then htis would be an easy way of focusing on my studies. So when list owner asked me to apologise, I deliberately responded with rude email saying that there is no point in apology for being an honest scientist and blah blah blah. So lo and behold, I was banned.

So during the initial few days after I was banned I felt euphoric because FINALLY I was able to focus on my studies and all. So the next few months went by smoothly which took me to my graduation. Then I decided to "celebrate" my graduation from UC Berkeley by subscribing on that list under false name and thus obtaining a list of introductions that they refused to send me when i was subsccribed the first time due to my history on the other message board. Indeed, I did get a list of intros. But then when I posted my own intro I was recognized by writing style and the list owner asked me why did I come under false name instead of "discussing things honestly" and being subscribed under the real name. Well, since I was in a good mood in light of graduation and all, I decided to tell her the truth that I did it in order to get a list of introductions; it was like "hey, no matter how hard you tried, I got everything I wanted, now do whatever you want with me".

But you see, even though I was THINKING I wanted to make her mad, I didn't really mean it, because I didn't even know what it is. Like I told you earlier, yes sometimes my mother's friends were "mad" at me. But they weren't "really" mad. I mean their "anger" consisted of patiently explaining to me why I shouldn't be doing it in future, for my own benefit. So since I never had a chance to feel any kind of REAL anger, I weren't in a position to say htat it would be "interesting" to watch listowner's anger, or anyone else's for that matter. So, the reaction of list owner was a complete shock to me.

I guess one of the things that hurt me the most is that the way I was identified was by writing style of intro. But if you look at the CONTEXT of the intro, I was explaining in a lot of detailes how I was teased back in Russia and stuff. So from the perspective of my own little world, the fact that I have just posted something "sensitive" means that I am to get unconditional sympathy. So the fact that the "sensitive" post was used for something just the opposite, i.e. to identify me, was really a slap in a face.

This also brought back memory of what happened in that list during the first time I was participating. So, as far as "racist" post, I was very much expecting negative reaction, so none of the flame wars about the post itself ever hurt me. But the thing was that one of the people who was attacking that post, Down, started to bring up OTHER things I have said on that list. In particular Down attacked me for one of my post where I was trying to help another girl, Sarah, with her social skills. Now Sarah was living across the bay from me (I was in Berkeley and she was in Stanford) and she was one of the first people who greeted me for that reason, she also started to exchange privite emails from me and she was one of the most diligent responders to all of my inquiries. So my advice to Sarah was well meaning, and I took it for granted that Sarah also perceived it that way, so when someone else stepped in to defend Sarah against my well meaning advice, it was really slap in the face.

There was one more example where again Dawn ruined whatever was going on between me and Sarah. So, again when it was my first time on the list, I have made an inquiry for everyone to describe their symptoms of autism and compare them to DSM 4. Like I said earlier, people took offense at a lot of my DSM 4 related questions. So Down basically accused me of making that post in order to try to set up a "chierarchy on a list". I simply ignored that remark. So then within next few days Sarah responded with detailed description of all of her symptoms.

Right now looking back I can tell that most of what she described is far more severe than anything I have experienced. However, the way my mind is hardwired is that when I begin to like a woman I start to feel like I *am* that woman, so I feel like my face is the same as hers, my thoughts are the same, etc. and I would start to look at the little things about her and identify with them. So, at the time I was liking Sarah because we were across the bay, and most likely she was also Jewish (since she listed Jewish things as one of her obsessions), which made it seem a little bit like a fate, she was also first to welcome me and also because her Stanford picture looked like she isn't in touch with reality and thus seemed "pure" in a sense, which was also reinforced by the fact that one of the things she described about herself is that she couldn't ever learn to use F word.

So anyway, the reality of situation is that she was much older than me and was engaged. But this was irrelevent given that I never intertained the thought of dating anyone on the first place, since any such thing was "waste of time". So I simply took my feelings towards her as something I can dwell on, fantasize about, etc. while all the "real world" stuff is irrelevent. So, part of my fantasizing about it was to post a description of my own symptoms of Asperger presented in such a way that a lot of similarities between my simptoms and hers were stressed. I guess some of it was downright silly since I was taking things about myself from when I was 5 year old, and then twisting them to say they are similar to what she did at 22. But the point is that I weren't doing it on purpose at all. I was sincerely thinking that there was some kind of fate going on between these similarities.

So anyway, the moment I made that post Down jumped on me where she said that she can also identify with 90% of what Sarah wrote, and by looking at such and such people on the list they also seem to match Sarah by 90%. On the other hand, as far as myself, judging by my other posts on autism she was sure that I simply didn't understand the condition and whenever I said I could relate to something I was simply "twisting facts". So that was really huge slap in the face. And then of course there was that other time when Down criticized me for trying to help Sarah because she decided that my helpful comments were just my own prejudices.

So anyway, the whole thing about Down and Sarah was during the first time I was on that list, so obviously I got over it up until I subscribed a second time three months later. But the point is that the second time I subscribed I was attacked right after I made that intro post about the way people were teasing me in Russia. So in my head this was very similar to what was happening with Sarah and Down. I was expecting lots of sympathy for that intro post in much the same way as I expected supportive comments regarding everything I posted relevent to Sarah. And in both cases I was attacked instead. In fact, part of the reason I decided to re-subscribe on that list was that I missed interaction with Sarah. So it didn't even matter that list owner wasn't a mind reader; the fact that Sarah was even part of a reason I was trying to subscribed meant that I should have been welcomed with open arms since my feelings towards Sarah were so "pure".

Then few days later I ran across a poem on a different message board: http://web.archive.org/web/200401200211 ... 05219.html Then I started to dwell on every word of this poem trying to see whether or not it has any answers in terms of what happened on that mailing list. And then I looked at the very last paragraph of a poem which said that the reason for being ignored is "not caring about friends". And then I realized that in my case I was ignored for diametrically opposite reason, namely for the fact that I "care about Sarah" too much -- whether it be whatever I said to Sarah that caused Dawn to act up OR the fact that I have re-subscribed to the mailing list "because of Sarah". Furthermore, somewhere in the middle of the poem it says "when you show someone your innermost thoughts and they laugh at your face". So here I was, showing the entire mailing list "my inntermost thoughts" with my lengthy introduction about having been teased at school, and instead the list owner jumped at my writing style and accused me of using false names.

So then I was dwelling for the full few months on the thing that I weren't treated fairly from the perspective of that poem. Of course, after a lot of thinking I started to tell myself over and over that may be I didn't "care about Sarah" but instead cared about the mental image of Sarah. But it was really a hard work to convince myself of that, and I never succeeded untill I was in a relationship two years later which served as re-bound. I guess it also helped that the name of my first girlfriend also happened to be Sarah, so that way the name was weared out in my mind and lost all of its mystical qualities, so this ultimately helped me to forget about the Sarah on the list.

But up untill that time it really put me through hell on earth. Okay, so at least for a few months I was preoccupied about that poem. So in order for things to be "fair" I was supposed to "not care about my friends" in order to be ignored. My friends, of course, are no one other than Sarah. Therefore, at some point Sarah was supposed to email me, and I was supposed to curse at her untill she shuts up. Furthermore, I was sure Sarah WILL email me, I mean I was just attacked on the list, and Sarah is always on my side, so sooner or later she would write me something to try to make me feel better, and that would be a good time to yell at her. But then it turned out that she never emailed me, so I was totally surprised about it.

However, my little fantasy did come to "some kind" of fulfillment with someone other than Sarah approximately a week or so after I read that poem. But I couldn't simply bash her for nothing because in this case it would be "lame". So my excuse for bashing her was the fact that Clare threatened me that if I would re-subscribe on that list again she would be contacting the graduate school I was admitted into (all because I stupidly included the name of that school in my introduction). So I decided to tell her that since it has been a week after I was unsubscribed a second time, I am sure that the reason she was contacting me NOW is because of something that went on behind the scenes after I was gone. In particular may be someone subscribed a THIRD time pretending to be me. Furthermore, in order to "prove my case" I made it clear that I want no further contact with her or anyone else on that list, and the only thing I want her to tell me is "yes" or "no" as far as the validity of my "guess" of what have happened.

Now, she answered it with "yes". Well looking back from right now I can see that the reason it was "yes" is simply because she probably read the email fast and didn't realize that I was talking about subscribing the THIRD time, so her "yes" was in reference to the SECOND time. But back then I was simply frightened by the fact that, in a response to my statement that I subscribed in order to get a list of intros, the listowner accused me of "violating of privacy of the list" in a writing style that sounded like a legal document. So I was thinking that even if there is slightest chance that my school will be contacted, it is a real possibility that they would be expelling me. Given her writing style, probably there are some state laws that protect the privacy of mailing lists.

Well obviously right now I know how stupid this whole idea was. Appart from that, I probably should have just accepted an offer from Toronto anyway instead of sticking to Minnesota. This would of solved all my worries, and appart from that University of Toronto is far better match for me academically. But then there was my mom, and I was keeping the whole internet business completely away from her, so I needed some other reason for changing my mind. As far as the fact that Toronto is better match research-wise, this was already discussed, and the conclusion was that it is better to go to the university within USA just because this would help me in terms of job market inside of the country. This whole discussion occured BEFORE I ever got any threats from the list owner. So now that I did have threats, which I was keeping from my mom, I simply decided to say that while I am "amost certain" that I choose Minnesota over Toronto I still have my doubts, so I would take both offers just in case I change my mind.

Of course the picture I envisioned is that Minnesota would expell me for violation of privacy policy of that mainling list and I would run away to Toronto. So I had this idea of expulsion for a few months. Then at the beginning of October I finally realized that nothing is happening. Then I was back at my fantasy of attacking Sarah which weren't really fulfilled since first of all the person who did email me wasn't Sarah, secondly she weren't trying to make me feel better either, she was simply saying hello, and finally after my rude "question" there was no attempt on her part to appease me, which made it feel like it didn't matter.

Now all these fantasees were obviously not healthy. So then I decided that may be the way to get rid of defense mechanisms is by going back to the real issue and solve it in a positive way. Even though I had Sarah's website, I didn't feel comfortable contacting her at all because this was such a soft spot. So I decided to subscribe to a number of autism message boards to see whether or not Sarah participates in any. If such be the case, then I would be a regular member on that board WITHOUT ever being the first to contact Sarah; sooner or later she would contact me herself. But unfortunately whenever I ran a search on her the only thing I found was her website, nor did I see her on any of hte boards I got subscribed into.

Then I decided to do similar search for Clare Seinsbury, who is a list owner. Now my hope was again to simply share message board with her without ever contacting her. I was planning on being on my best behavior in that message board, and then she would hopefuly notice that I have changed and eventually invite me back to that mailing list herself. But again, I experienced similar luck finding her. Yes she *used* to participate at the message board where I was talking about autisitc kid in high school, but it was no longer the case.

So then I finally decided to tell to myself over and over that up untill I joined that mailing list I was happy, so why can't I just pretend that the mailing list never existed; after all I only been on that list for less than a couple of weeks! And then I realized that what made it difficult for me to think of it that way is that the mailing list was my only social experience within many years, which was why i was viewing it as some kind of unique thing on planet earth. So the remedy was to socialize more, and this will bring me a lot of things just as good as the mailing list. So that was when I decided to go to that Jewish club. But instead I only experienced rejection so this made me go right back to the internet and running more and more searches on Sarah Roberts, Clare Sainsbury and other ppl on the list. I finally got over it on the spring semester when I got an email ad of dating sites, and from that time on dating sites became my obsession.




Well, I don't think there were that many people in the Jewish club who were into religion. We selebrated Sabbath and holidays as a tradition, but there weren't any Jewish studies or stuff like that.

Appart from that eventually I started to believe in Jesus. Yes according to my belief, I do continue to observe Old Testament laws because they are part of the bible. But I definitely reject all the extra-biblical things, including Talmud and Kabbalah.




Yah I agree with you 100%. So I guess I keep looking back on my ex-s who were probably the only few on the planet who accepted me for who I am. So I am just thinking that if I were to run into some other girl who is just like my ex-s, then this cycle would be broken. First she would accept me DESPITE my thinking I am worthless, and then once I have a girlfriend I would no longer thikn I am worthless and this would allow me to socialize and find friends, and practice social skills.

You see, right now I can't even begin to go to the movies or to any clubs because every time I would see someone who isn't sinlge it would be a confirmation of how worthless I am. Obviously when/if I would have a girlfriend, I would no longer be thinking that way. Thats why having a gilrfriend is an absolute prerequisite for any other kind of socialization.



I was trying to tell that to myself, too. But it doesn't work. I mean once my mind believes in something, choosing to ignore it is like trying to convince myself that red is not really red but blue.




When I said I lost something I am comparing the actual situation with what would of been if I was still together with her. This could of easilly happened if I didn't screw things up a BIG way, since she was super-patient with me. As far as experience, why would I need any experience for "other women" if I were going to settle down and mary her? I guess the only way I can make myself feel better is by saying that I was bound to make these mistakes one way or the other UNTILL I learned something as a result of having made them. But then the question is do I really learn anything? I am repeating the same old stuff with every new girl I am with. Yes, I told myself over and over that even when people's patience is really huge, it is still finite. But this doesn't help because whenever I meet someone patient, she becomes an exception to ALL rules, including this one. I even told myself over and over that there are no exceptions, but still each new girl is an exception to the rule that there are no exceptions. So far I had 5 girlfriends and no matter how much I was rethinking everything, my behavior pattern was identical with each one.



Okay, what I mean is that my life experience is about myself, my family, and the five girlfriends that I had, and that is it. In each case in one way or the other it was understood that I am not the same as other people, so it was always been centered on me. And then, due to my Asperger, I am always analyzing conflicts in terms of cause and effect, so in my head it is alwayss about my "making a mistake" and then making a fuss over it; first the other person doesn't know what I am talking about, but eventually I drive her crazy over insisting on it. And finally "the mistake" is always about simple miscommunication due to Asperger, which is nothing too fansy either. So yah, my exotic life experiences is about my bitching about being lonely, and then some girl would finally be nice to me, and then sooner or later simple miscommunication will come alone, then I would obsess about it, and then eventually my obsessiveness would ruin a relationship. Same old pattern I guess.



Well in case of Anne it was different. Due to her bipolar she only had TWO friends and i was one of the two. She was studying with me every day at the library, she was cooking for me, she offered me to run with her and to watch TV with her. I don't see how it is any less than what I did with any of my real girlfriends, given that I don't believe in sex before merriage. Also one thing she told me after she sent me that rejection letter was "how would our relationship be any different if we were in a relationship". In other words, she just told me that there is no difference. Then my question to her is if indeed it is all the same, then why not just call it a "relationship"? The only possible answer is that she didn't want to "give me credit" by giving me a "title" of a "boyfriend", and that is what really offended me.



MY MOM

1)She definitely didn't want me to move away from home. In fact she went as far as saying that I should stay undergraduate for one more year so that I could get in some place closer to home. I DIDN"T LISTEN TO HER AND WENT TO SCHOOL AWAY FROM HOME ANYWAY.

2)The way I am reminded of it is that RIGHT NOW which is over five years after I moved away from home and I was taking it for granted, when all of a sudden the subject comes up all over again. In particular when I found a professor outside of University of Michigan who is better match for my interests, the question was why don't I instead contact a couple of professors close to home whom my mom have found. And I KNOW that she meant more than simple convenience, because I seen her email to one of the professors where she was saying how I was screwing up my situaiton at school and that she feels I would be doing better if I were to live at home. But SHE IS WRONG. The reason I am doing worse is because of that mailing list and also because of lack of experience of doing research. Okay fine I keep the whole mailing list business from her. But still the part about courses verses research implies that demands in graduate school are very different. So may be the issue is NOT that I left home but rather that I started graduate school. It HAPPENED so that I was at home as an undergraduate, hence the coincidence. But the point is that IF it was in reverse and if I were away from home as an undergraduate and at home as graduate, it would of looked like being in home stays in a way.

3)Speaking of my problems at school, she also tried to arrange speach therapy for me apparently because she lumped together my social and academic problems to the point that she was thinking that by "fixing" one she would "fix" the other. This is nothing but prejudice. Anyway, she was insisting on paying for it whether I show up or not. But I still chose NOT to show up, so after 4 sessions she finally stopped paying.

4)She was worried that I am overloading myself with coures. I guess it was true, but the point is that she didn't tell me "hey instead of taking maximal number of coures, lets take average number of courses". No, she insisted that I take the SMALLEST number of courses possible. Also, she didn't respect my right as an adult because she kept pushing me to drop courses for first few weeks in a semester, and often she would only stop at the point when dropping courses is no longer allowed.

5)She always worries about me every time I either go to a new place or whatever. For example, when I was in Student Orientation in Michigan my mom was afraid I would forget to look up the name of the hotel they wanted me to be in

6)She was constantly asking me about my progress at school with my advisor because she was afraid I won't stay on track

7)She was assuming I never talk to my advisor (WHICH WAS WRONG) and for that reason kept pushing me to spend longer time in California during winter and summer breaks (when I confronted her that I do see my advisor she would give me some lame reasons such as "may be" seeing him isn't necesery -- yah right she is the one who was pestering me if I see him often enough). Her assumption that I never talk to my advisor was traced to a SINGE incident at the end of my first year in graduate school where she

She worries about my health in general, and scoliosis in particular. So she keeps pushing me to go swimming every day AND to find myself a swim coach to correct my strokes or whatever. Now I am not lazy or anything -- I am long distance runner. The reason I am not doing it is simply that I am preoccupied with school and other htings, so the whole swimming business is unimportant.

9)Speaking of "health in general" part, she is into the whole healthy eating business. I guess this isn't just about me but about the whole family, but still it is quite extreme

10) Even though I keep all of my girlfriends from her, the first ex was pissed off about it and deliberately called when my mom was home. So anyway my mom reacted with shock. Obviously later she acted like she wanted me to be with my ex just to please me, but the bottom line is that she was viewing me as a child, even though I was 24 years old at that time.

11)As a result of the history when MY MOM was the one who was trying to stop me from studying so much, I have no idea how I can make sense of hte fact that I decided to look for women on my own innitiative. I can't simply tell the truth that my attitude changed because of the mailing list, since I was keeping mailing list from my mom as well since that, too, constituted "doing things other than school". So anyway, the point is that I KEEP ALL OF MY GIRLFRIENDS FROM MY MOM, and that often causes friction.

12)When I first moved to Minnesota my mom wanted to call me every day. Only two years after I moved from home did she gave up on the whole thing when she learned that for the most part I won't return her calls. Other than that, she also visits me every two months or so.


MY FIRST EX:

1)She didn't give me keys from her appartment. Probably that was because during the initial stages of relationship I was telling her how I take random busses at random dirrections just to "excape" the environment I am bored with, so she was afraid I would do that while at her place

2)Whenever we were at a loud place she was asking whether or not it was too loud for me, because she read how some autistics are oversensitive to noises. I was telling her many times how this particular symptome never applies to me, but it never worked

3)She never introduce me to her friends because she was afraid I won't be able to handle it due to Asperger. Well, to be more exact, she DID bring me to see her friends at Old Chicago, but she only did it to please me, and she didn't do anything to help me find things to talk to them about. I guess this is also a form of sheltering because this goes alone the lines of her thinking I won't be able to handle something.

4)When I was moving from Minnesota to Michigan she asked me how did I pay for UPS, even though it was self-obvious that I had to pay "somehow".

5)A lie that my ex was checking my emails in order to help me keep track of things (see explanation below)


Then of course there were a lot of things that Anne saw herself when I weren't confident:

ANNE:

1)She WRONGLY assumed that the fact that my mom and my ex shelters me, that is the kind of thing I need. The truth is that I HATED when either of them treated me that way, I simply didn't know how to stand up. But Anne, mistakenly, thought that I like this kind of treatment

2)When I finally mentioned part 1 to her, she told me that isn't it still lack of confidence/independance that I couldn't stand up

3)She had to feed me because otherwise I were forgetting to eat regularly. Again, she was wrong. What was happening was that I was spending with her all day long in the library, so I didn't feel comfortable saying "excuse me, I have to go get something to eat". Furthermore, I weren't told that it was her concern; I was vieweing her feeding me as simply a friendly gesture with nothing behind it.

4)she offered to do laundary for me because my clothes were dirty

5)She once had to remind me to take a shower

6)I asked her to help me with my taxes. Even though this was me who asked that, I feel like I weren't told what the expectations were. Especially since she was eager to help me untill I started laughing about my own thoughts which made her mad. PLEASE NOTE: this whole taxes thing happened LONG AFTER she LJBF-ed me. But she did say that "this is one reason why she won't ever date me -- I am just like little kid".

7)Finally, she said that if I were confident or independent, I won't have been so much upset that we were just friends -- again it was long AFTER the LJBF.




In my case, somehow knowing that it is hardware rather than software only seems to stress its validity. I guess it is difficult to convince myself that everyone is mentally ill.



So I guess the recipy for happiness is to apply Cartesian doubt to everyone EXCEPT myself, and this is very difficult because I am not a smartest person in the planet.



But if I stick to this line of though, I will be forced to imply that it is creator's will to make me inferior simply because humans, who are his representatives, treat me as such.

So I guess my dillema is that either I have to deify others and feel inferior or demonize others and feel confused. I guess it might be black or white thinking due to Asperger, but I really can't help it.



Exactly, and it is perfectly reasonable, after all why should I think I am smartest person on the planet? If I stick to genetics, I am just part of a gene pool so I shouldn't have any more "vote" than others.

I guess the other part of it is that if I will justify why I feel better by quoting MYSELF as a source, this wouuld become circular reasoning. So in order not to be circular I have to quote something outside of myself. So lets go back to when I had girlfriends, they were still small minority, but at least I weren't being circular when I was "quoting" THEM as opposed to myself.



But if you want to go deep into it, then what IS the truth anyway? It is always about what others expect. So if I will meditate-away this mindset, then I would meditate-away my whole purpose of life, after all even my physics career is about getting approval from others.





SARAH (NOT the one I met on a mailing list):

So we met on September 2003. During first two months everything was perfect. Then Sarah was reading a book about couples where one of the partners have Asperger's. SHe then told me that she was glad to find out that most of the described aspies are far more severe than I was. But you see since my head is obsessed with accuracy, I simply started TELLING her about the symptoms of Asperger in order to get "fair assessment". The point is that I was viewing her "on the same side" and couldn't possibly conceive of a possibility of turning her off by anything I would ever say. I pretty much viewed her as my second mother, so that was why I was open with her.

After that I saw her on a message board for aspie partners where she mentioned that recently she have heard a "rather interesting" description of my symptoms and she was "shocked" by some of what she heard. So then I started to point out to her that everything I said was referring strictly to myself back in high school and that right now it is no longer true. After all, I am much younger than my age, so back in high school I was at most 10 or 12, but now (as my passport age was 23) I was already 16 or even 18, so it was a big difference.

At first she was simply telling me that everything was fine and that it wasn't a big deal. But then I kept pushing the issue that if it isn't a big deal, then why was she "shocked". So after she was patient for a couple of days she eventually told me that if I want a relationship to work I should stop picking appart every little thing she says. So then I backed off. Then a couple of days later she made a big deal out of the fact that I was keeping her from my mom.

But the point is that the fact that I kept her from my mom was cool for the first two months of a relationship, and then few days after the fight over SOMETHING ELSE all of a sudden it is no longer cool. So basically I blame the whole mom issue on that "little accident" about telling her about my high school years.

Now as for mom thing this basically kept draggin on and on untill it ruined a relatinoship. So basically we met in September and this fight about my high school years and my mom happened in October or November. Then some time in December when my mom was visitting me Sarah deliberately called while my mom was there, so I hanged up. Then she called again when I was in a shower, so my mom picked up a phone and I ran out of the shower to rip it off from my mom to hang it up. But Sarah already had time to tell my mom her email adress so she was deliberately emailing my mom and telling her everything I didn't want her to know.

I didn't break up with Sarah over it simply because I felt like she is the only option for me. So the relationship continued all the way untill August 2004. Now, since I obviously got on her nerves with the whole hanging up a phone business, she was crabby starting from January 2004 all the way untill May 2004. Basically she was mad at anything and everything, including things like my "yanking at the door" when I was trying to get out of the car. Then in May I moved from Minnesota to Michigan because I transfered schools, and she was planning to move to Michigan at March. We were engaged and we were planning to mary when she moves.

Now, I didn't want to marry her because first of all she was overprotective like my mom (see earlier) and secondly she was always mean to me. At the same time, since she was my only option I had to stick to it or be sorry. So I decided to simply start looking for other women, and that way I would decide whether or not to allow her to move in March based on whether or not I find someone else. But then the issue is that if I maintain too close communication with her, it might be difficult to prevent her from moving. So I decided to simply tell her that I am trying to limit my internet time in order to fight internet addiction, and so I will talk to her on a phone. And then in terms of phone my batteries always went off so I couldn't really call her that often. She pretended to be understanding about it, but then in September she told me that she found another boyfriend and our relatoinship was over.

Now, here is a cause and effect:

I told her about high school ==> We had that fight ==> She started the whole issue with my mom because she was in a bad mood ==> She called home and I hanged up ==> She was mean to me throughout spring ==> I neglected her in summer ==> She found someone else

So based on this, I blame EVERYTHING on the very FIRST step, since everything else follow from that. In other words, it took me FIVE MINUTES to tell her about high school, and these five minutes have ruined the whole entire relationship.

MEGAN

We were in a relationship between December 2004 and May 2005. So when we were only getting to know each other, may be in October or November, and were only friends, she told me about her ex. Namely that once she came home from job early and saw him in bed with another woman, so she broke up with him. But she also said that he have always been exploiting her financially, so in particular he insisted on living at the same place with her until April when his lease ends. I was naive and I believed her because, given that we met online, and were living an hour apart, there were no reason for her to be afraid of getting caught, especially since at the time we weren't even in a relationship.

Anyway, now fast forward it to May. So I called her and her ex picked up a phone. I immediately started to suspect something so I asked him if he is her boyfriend, and he said yes. Then I asked him whether or not he knows that I am her boyfriend too. He told me that yes she told him about me, and she said that we were friends. Then I asked him whether or not it is true that she broke up with him because she found him in bed with another woman. He said it wasn't true. So then I told him that Megan is probably playing games with me and that I am breaking up with her.

So then Megan contacts me and she is mad at me that I was asking these questions to her ex. She then told me that as far as she is concerned she is no longer in a relationship with her ex. But the problem is that her ex is hopping to get back with her and he is violent so for safety purposes she is trying to appease him, which was why she told him that me and her are just friends. She also said that since her ex was hopping to get back with her, he wanted me and her to break up, which was why he lied to me about her.

I guess I didn't know whom to believe, but I really weren't up to that so I simply made a clear break and walked away. I am only listing it for the purposes of completeness, because that is the only relationship where I really DON"T think I "screwed up" anything. Probably she was just playing games with me from the start.

ANNE

Okay so Anne met me in class in March 2005. At that time I was in a relationship with Megan whom I met online. Now, back in December 2005 me and Megan were trying to schejule time when we were going to meet, and I mentioned to her that at such and such time I was going to Minnesota (the school from which I transfered into Michigan) in order to get someone's notes for one of the classes I wish I could attend. So Megan told me that she hopes it won't be a girl that way she won't have to kick her ass. Now I was 90% sure it was sarcasm, but then there was 10% of me that was scared that may be Megan was serious about it -- after all why would I go all the way to Minnesota instead of copying someone else's notes from similar class in Michigan? Well the reason was that the particular professor in Minnesota was putting everything in a perspective while everyone else takes thigns for granted and just presents mashinery. Yes, I told that to Megan, and yes she ACTED as if she believed me, but how can I KNOW for SURE that she believed me???

So basically from that time on I was having an obsession of analyzing every little thing I do in terms of whether or not it might be a reason for Megan to suspect that I am
cheating on her. For example, we were chatting on a dating site at a particular time, and I was deliberately comming 10 minutes late so that when she logs on first she could open my profile to see that I haven't been logging on since the last time we were chatting.

So anyway, a couple of weeks before I met Anne, I again planned on meeting Megan, so she needed to know my phone number. But the point is that I am not that good at remembering numbers -- in fact I only memorized my own cell number AFTER that bad experience since that was when I learned my lesson. So anyway, I was going to call someone next to me so that they could see what number is being printed on a phone. So I asked Megan to wait for half a minute while I am calling. Then she asked me WHOM am I calling to. I said I am just calling someone random. She w

Last edited by Roman on 17 Nov 2006, 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, Anne was graduate student in math department, but I blew that one. Yes there are three women in physics department. But the point is that I am very isolated in terms of studies so I haven't been talking to ANYONE in physics department within last year or so, which would make it weird for me to start approaching women out of the blue. Plus of course it is possible that they have boyfirends, or are simply not looking for relationship. After all there are only three of them.



Well I am 26 year old, so I already passed that age. Plus in general I am more attracted to the face, and to the whole body style in general. I also like looking at their skin. But I don't actually remember wanting to look specifically at tits.



Yah but from my perspective the fact that 10 people in a room would always pick someone to hate, implies that perhaps its true that one out of every 10 ppl is "inferior" which only justifies my own inferior status.

Okay I mean suppose I won't judge myself based on other ppl's perceptions. Then what else should I judge myself on? Whatever it will be, it will always be chemistry of the brain, if not other ppl's brain, then my own brain. So I "better" put a brain in a position where its chemistry is in charge. Otherwise there won't be a point to life.

In a manner of speaking. Basically, I enjoy attempting to figure out why they do as they do, and why they are as they are. This did indeed translate into improved social skills, although this was not the original goal. It's more of a beneficial side-effect.



I'm driving more at your interaction with those your own age. How you were treated by the other children at school, for example. You say you were teased... did this not set up a negative expectation of how those your age would treat you?



One wonders... did you ever resent being sheltered?



The children in russia are even worse than those here? What do they do, have a daily "set fire to the cat" session during recess, or something? The mind boggles...

Did you experience any sort of culture shock when you moved to the US after being in Russia for so long? I'm curious now.



It still can result in social anxiety and a low self esteem.... the proof isn't just in real life, but also all around us, on these boards.



Was your social ignorance considered "bad behavior", then? It's not as if you could help it, really.



The rest of the world is not going to be as forgiving as your mother and her friends... one would imagine that the other children in school would have shown you that much?



"Bad" in this case is a moral judgment. How can one morally judge someone based off material they honestly do not know... in your case, a more refined sense of social mores? It is one thing to willfully ignore basic norms and mores on purpose, but quite another to do it because you simply don't know any better.

For example, If someone in the room is talking loudly, laughing, etc. and I have a headache, does it make them "bad?" What if they don't know to keep it down, because I have a headache? If they do not know, can they be held morally accountable for being ill-mannered? Not really... they don't even know that they're being ill-mannered. They should be informed that I've got a headache, not just told that they are "bad."



He probably assumed that as an adult you'd already know this stuff, and therefore attributed your behavior to malice, at least originally.

It is unfortunate, but even if he realized that it was not malicious at the end... most people don't want to have to take the time to teach other people the social skills that they believe the person ought to have learned years ago. It's far less effort to just ostracise them or encourage them to go elsewhere.



You have many facets, just as anyone else does... why not let them live a little, too? For example, here you are, all up into physics... and yet you come here, reaching a hand out into the darkness in hopes that someone will understand, rather than pinning that hand to the wall with a knife. You have multiple needs and goals.



Ah. (And ouch.)

For me, it was specializing that was the difficulty... my interests run so deep in so many different areas of the social sciences that it was VERY hard to not try and run in several different directions all at once. lol.



It is better to not share the methodology of your personal experimentation with the oversensitive. The data, yes. The methodology, no. Well, not unless you're actively wanting to bother them, which is confessedly amusing at times.

I've long since lost track of the number of times I've been called a monster or accused of inhumanity over that, rofl.

In Jonathan's case... quite frankly, I think that autistics are roundly underestimated by most researchers, in terms of their capacity to understand. *shrugs*



In the social sciences, a given theory sometimes bears the indelible stamp of the personality and "issues" of the person who created it. (There are exceptions... physiological psych is the least affected by this. Second would be the most hardcore of behaviorism.) It is unfortunate, but it cannot be helped. Researchers are human, and as such have their own share of inner conflicts, odd notions, and so on. No one comes into the world studying quarks, the lifecycle of batholithic marine life, or whatnot... but everyone has had to interact with others as a child, at least somewhat.

For example of a dovetailing between the theorist and the theory, do you recall Erik Erikson... he who proposed the (at the time relatively novel) idea that the personality continues to grow and develop throughout the lifespan, and introduced multiple binary stages? Erikson was not in fact his birth surname. He had serious issues with his father. In changing his name... Erik Erikson (think about that for a moment -- Erik, son of Erik ) he effectively obliterated his father's heritage from himself, and his theories were a denial of the (prior to this, unquestioned) idea that a child's personality is formed at a very young age, largely by his parents.



You bring up an interesting point there. There is often little difference between a mystic and a madman, if you want to be honest about it... it as if they are both thrown into the same psychological sea. The mystic finds he can swim, whereas the madman cannot and is drowning. This isn't exclusive to Jews, though... you can see that sort of thing in most cultural groups, really.



I don't know if I'd go that far... if ancient records are to be believed, the ancient Hebrews were quite the marauding band of desert barbarians in their day. In order to be a marauding barbarian, you have to have a certain baseline level of athleticism... and this is a trait that autistics are hardly known for. They would have had to have changed, once they settled down and became more "civilized" as a people.



Many of them tried desperately to fight, though... consider the Warsaw Ghetto, for example. As for the camps... your number one priority is in saving your own life, or at least prolonging it as much as possible. Yes, if every inmate were to charge the Germans, they might liberate the camp. However, the odds are excellent that those in the front line of the charge are going to be mown down by gunfire. You don't want to be shot, so you don't initiate a charge. And if everyone is thinking that too... then there's no charge. :/

I can see why they'd react negatively... most people would interpret your analysis as anti-semetic, yes?



I consider it that autistics and NT's tend to be good at different things, really. I would certainly not want to see an autistic diplomat, an autistic peacekeeper, or an autistic policeman, fireman, or soldier. All of these jobs require at least one skill that autistics are notoriously deficient in (social skills, athleticism, or both). At the same time, autistics tend to excel in fields that confessedly have all the 'warm n fuzzy' humanistic appeal of a particularly nasty industrial accident... most branches of science, mathematics, technology, etc. If we lacked either type, I think our species would probably still be in the caves.



Such comments regarding blacks are generally construed as racist by the population at large, though.



I think the individual variance is too broad to fully justify the generalization that race is destiny, as it were... I've known a few blacks over the course of my life who were quite good at such things.



Well, that was one way to do it. Let me guess, you were accused of being racist and of having read The Bell Curve one too many times, right? lol...



Lol... when you gloat, and then follow up by in effect baring your throat and saying "Strike!" most people will indeed oblige and do precisely that.



If you knew you were going to get a negative reaction for the "racist post"....

.... then why did you post it?



Heh, well... your taste is different than mine, I'll say that much. As opposed to the pure "knight in shining armor" type, I'd sooner have a knight whose armor has been somewhat blackened and dented... that way, I know that he's actually used it and it's not just for show.



You had a crush on her... some social mirroring often goes on as a result of that. Hehe.



From what you're saying, Dawn's reactions keep being out of all proportion to what was done and said. I wonder what her deal is? At the very least, you would provided an interesting diversion from the typical "same s**t different day" of messageboards.



You wanted to yell at her... for ignoring you?



If your department heads, deans, etc. are anything like the ones I've known, they probably would have told Clare to stop wasting their time with trifles, or not even dignify the complaint with a response at all. It's an internet messageboard... you don't get much more informal than that. If they can't manage it competently and resolve disputes in a mature fashion, how is that your school's problem?



See, at this point I would have laughed in her face over the whole school thing, waited a few months so I wouldn't be the first one suspected, then started actively seeking ways to cause her trouble. When it comes to sheer entertainment value, taking pompous, self-important b*****s down a peg... or two... or two hundred... might not be #1, but it's definitely in the top five.



No offense intended, but life would probably be btter if you were to live a little more outside your head and a little less in it, you know?



A shame, on that latter. One of my hobbies is the occult, so that's why I asked hehe.

And if you start quoting the old testament, about allowing witches to live, I'm going to thump you one.



Perhaps it would be more beneficial to you if you were to work at the problem from the opposite direction? Rather than girlfriend ==> friends, perhaps friends ==> girlfriend might be better. Back when I was still in the dating pool, I'd never get anyone when I was actively looking... only when I was like "to hell with it" and going on with my life. lol



You know it is true, though. If you do that and lose that one person's regard, then you have lost everything... and humans are notoriously fickle, self-interested creatures.



Well, that didn't happen, so yes... you need the experience, and it gave you some.



That's because you still have the same overall outlook and modus operandi.



If you don't have a life, maybe you should go about getting one? I know that sounds trite, but it's also the logical conclusion.

Last edited by Hazelwudi on 18 Nov 2006, 12:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.

I had to break it in half, due to apparent post length restrictions.

You're not going to learn about it if you don't get out there and immerse yourself in it. I know the prospect is daunting, but there it is. Improvement by socializing over the internet is possible, but it tends to be much slower.



Frankly, from what I can deduce she's not attracted to your lack of confidence and wants to be free to pursue romance elsewhere, hence why she doesn't want to be 'tied down' by already having you as a boyfriend.



It's not her life, it's yours. Contacting professors to whine about your choices? Who the hell does she think she is? Frankly, if my parents were all over my life like that, I'd tell them to butt out in no uncertain terms.



Again, you need to educate your mother on the difference between your life and her life. Harshly, if need be.



The single best thing about college is finally getting away from that BS.



And even if you forgot, that again is not her problem or her concern, and she needs to be apprised of the fact.



And you didn't tell her precisely where she could shove it, after such a performance? *boggles*



No offense intended (she is your mother, after all) but she sounds like a domineering, controlling woman who is constantly ragging on you in an effort to avoid having to think about (or do anything about) her own shortcomings. That tendency is a great deal of the reason why I tend to despise most other women.



Again, there's that inability to understand your life != hers....



Well, that presents you with a relatively easy way to spite her.



You need to stand up to her. Badly.



What you tell her about your life is entirely up to you. With my parents, I largely tell them the truth because it spares me the effort of having to remember/back up lies. And if (when) they disapprove, I couldn't care less, a fact that's readily apparent. lol



And you put up with that? *blinks* Amazing.



Maybe. Or maybe it was something else?



Present your personality as just that... your personality, rather than framing it as an easily stereotypable 'disorder'. I take issue with the notion that Asperger's is a "disorder" in general, honestly... to me, all it means is that you start a bit stronger in impersonal endeavors and weaker in interpersonal ones, compared to most people.



Imo, she should have tried to socially include you (in terms of the conversation) a bit more.



Maybe she was honestly curious? I don't know....



Standing up is easy. You know in your heart of hearts that what they do is unjustified and wrong. Good. Now correct the situation, and enjoy making them pay for their transgressions. You know where their weakest points are, psychologically speaking. Strike, and teach them the errors of their ways.



To be brutally honest, I wouldn't be interested in a guy who couldn't stand up to his mother, either. When you refuse to stand up to your mother, you come across as a child... as a boy. When women are looking for romance, they don't generally want boys. They want men.



Your eating habits are your own concern, not hers. Eat when you require food.



When you behave as this, you reinforce the image in her mind of being like a boy rather than a man.



Exactly... she views you as a boy, not a man.



It's not mental illness, it's a tendency to ingroup/outgroup mentality and all the cruelty to the outsider which goes with it. It was an evolutionary survival advantage for a very long time to be that way. It still is, in some places.



I'm not either, it's irrelevant. Most people... they're driven by generally cruel and very self-serving instincts, not insane. There's a difference.



Ah, but you are also one of his representatives. The main difference is that some are more enlightened than others.



You don't have to consider yourself "the smartest person on the planet", but yes indeed... if you are intelligent and mentally stable, you do indeed get far more vote than the unintelligent and/or neurotic.



In this particular case, the truth is that you're not going to get respect from others until you learn to respect yourself. If even you don't respect yourself, why should anyone else respect you?



You probably shouldn't talk about your Asperger's to these women. When you do, most NT's interpret it as you saying, "I'm really f****d up in the head." This is not the take-home message you want them to have about you.



Don't get involved with women that aren't 100% completely single. That never ends well, lol.



You can't be. Every romantic relationship requires some degree of trust, though. *shrugs*



Don't do that... if you behave as if you're obsessed with looking like you're not cheating, she'll naturally assume you've got something to hide, i.e. that you're cheating. It's counterproductive lol.



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Last edited by Hazelwudi on 18 Nov 2006, 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

Don't you ever talk to people in the hallway and whatnot? Or did you as a result of your classes?



Hmm... It might be due to my own personal characteristics on my part, admittedly. I've got a D cup, and in my experience there's no age at which men completely stop looking. They just strive to make it less obvious.



No. It says that it's human nature to hate and fear that which is different, it says nothing about you being inferior in some way.



Chemistry... you think that's all there is to you? You, who don't have sex before marriage for religious reasons?