Racism by degree

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Or maybe you do it by getting rid of race. Current racial boxes are pretty recent (only several hundred years, I've read). People have always put people in boxes and I don't think that tendency is going away...ever. But the whole idea of what constitutes a box is always in flux (even if it doesn't seem like it from the perspective of one's own lifetime). There is no reason why we are stuck with race forever as a box. People mixing at an ever-faster rate is going to make it harder and harder to use that. We may wind up going back to old stand-bys such as nationality and religion and abandoning race as it becomes ever harder to figure out who goes where.

One unintended consequence of affirmative action in the U.S. is the screwing over of many black men (President Obama aside). (Aplogies to non-Americans for making this U.S.-centric.) Since there are affirmative action policies in place by both race and gender, many companies opt for a twofer and preferentially hire black women. It is causing real friction between black men and women.

Have fun practicing aromatherapy with the smell of your own s**t. It must be a lot more soothing than lavender.

Ok, it seems I might have wrongly assumed that anyone with the patience to debate over multiple pages with someone as far left as dionysian would be close to him on the spectrum (for want of a better word).

Which, of course, is another point, as the blind men agreed when they moved over to the porcupine.

Here, given the way that dialogue has been going, I think we may safely postulate at ther very least serious obtuseness.

There were along the way many points where a JakobVergil / Inuyasha style interaction could have been deflected.

If you want to take it to the individual level, like you just did, it breaks down completely. If you have two applicants for the same position, a black person from a wealthy family and a white person who grew up in a slum, is there any sane reason to give one of applicants preference because of race? Should Barack Obama's children get any preferential treatment because of race?

If it's about historical errors then immigrants or children of recent immigrants should never benefit from affirmative action. I played football with an African immigrant, his family was a big deal in Africa, he was the son of a chief. It's probable that he's descended from Chiefs who sold Africans into slavery. Why should he benefit from affirmative action programs?

We're all individuals with different stories and I think it does everyone a disservice to try and categorize us and lump us together in different groups for social programs that often don't even help the people they were designed to help.

Poor white kid from South Boston: He gets more points on the test because he's black? That's not fair!

Bureaucrat: It's because of slavery shut up!

Poor white kid: But he's Kenyan!

Bureaucrat: Shut up!

As to the the original question an interesting and perhaps telling question to put to someone would include a picture of an interracial kiss with multiple choices of

"How does this picture make you feel?"



a) Disgusted
b) Happy
c) Neutral
d) Passionate

That's a good point.

Affirmative Action to some extent uses race as a proxy for class, and you've shown some examples for how that's unfair.

Personally I think it's time to ignore race altogether (to the extent that is possible) and start trying to elevate class with no reference to race. Poverty is something that can be addressed without reference to race. Race-blind attempts to fight poverty might actually help fix racism, since it would remove the poor white vs. middle class black resentment your post addresses.

Almost all policy solutions are imprecise. It's a greater good question. Government policy historically put African Americans in the lowest caste, where the cycle of poverty took over and was helped by laws and prejudice right into the 1960s and possibly beyond. So a policy attempts to get more of them into the middle-class when it comes down to a few points or positions here or there. It can certainly be debated but to pretend that it's racist is just too stupid for words.

Native Americans get free college as a way to redress the historical problems. Well, they get a lot of scholarship money that otherwise whites wouldnt have access to. They didn't just randomly wind up on extremely poor reservations. The government contributed and now a government policy gives them a form of compensation for their trouble.

The reservations also got large cash settlements of some sort.

Well here's a little insight into my views...

I am right wing on:

• Guns
• Welfare
• The military
• Taxes
• Economic regulation

And I am left wing on:

• Retirement benefits
• Public health care (with a private alternative)
• Unions
• Drugs

This is why it isn't a good idea to resort to unfounded assumptions.

I think it would be prudent to outline your definition (or degrees) of racist.

For example, I don't consider myself to be racist at all, but one day I commented on a shift in what I consider to be attractive.. As a teen, I found men of other races to be highly attractive, and apparently on adulthood, tend to be attracted to those of my own race. My friend called me racist. Does this really make me racist? It doesn't seem to be inspired by anything concrete, I just one day noticed a change. (And that doesn't mean that there aren't those of other races that I find attractive, just that if I had to define my "type", this is what I found.)

I do find it frustrating when people of other races get special consideration or benefits strictly because of their ancestry. Take scholarships. There are far fewer scholarships for white males... I consider that to be an injustice and some sort of reverse racism... but does feeling that way make me racist?

I personally don't think so. I think everyone should be judged on the same merits and those that need help should get it, regardless of race or ethnic background. However, many would think that just because I don't think special consideration should be given on those grounds, then I must be racist.

Ohhh, before someone else points it out, I do have issues with illegal immigration. Strictly the "illegal" part, not with immigration in general. (just putting it all on the table so no one points out, "But you've said...........")

Oh, the poor white man. It's so hard.

Off at the races topic

Have you done something with Sarah's hair, JV? It is beginning to look Trumpish.

I can be very racey.

Do you believe chimpanzees are innately different from humans, including differences in the brain resulting in intellectual and behavioural disparities?

You are a vile, disgusting, subhuman speciesist! Humans and chimpanzees are equal! Anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant and hateful and wants to exterminate chimpanzees! All scientific studies that show otherwise are biased and conducted by speciesists, and do not take environmental factors into account! That's all it boils down to, any difference between chimpanzees and humans is clearly caused by their environment!

Do the chimpanzees maintain we are their equals?

Or is it only the "advanced" Homo lovers who believe we should not be treated as sub-Pan?

I never said it was racist and Native Americans are a different issue. I read an interesting article that suggested people closely resembling Australian Aborigines inhabited the Americas before the people we know as Native Americans did, but that's going off-track.

As was suggested programs should give preference to the economically downtrodden regardless of race, otherwise resentment will perpetuate the racism you want to fight. If the point is to help level the playing field because of historical injustices against minorities like you suggest then it's already broken because the majority of immigrants qualify for these programs because they are minorities with no history here at all. If the point is diversity for diversity's sake then say so, but lowering standards for the sake of diverse representation of a nebulous ill-defined meaningless social construct like "race" is the opposite of serving the greater good. Individuals should be treated like individuals, how's that for an imprecise policy solution? Attempting to legally define what race people are will always be problematic.

Only one of these twin sisters will qualify for affirmative action programs even though they have the same parents.

Last edited by Mack27 on 13 Jun 2011, 1:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.

I have no idea what point you are trying to make - If you are trying to make one.