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pandabear
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16 Jul 2011, 10:08 pm

Well, David was also known to dance with all his might while wearing nothing but a linen loin cloth.



pandabear
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Philologos
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16 Jul 2011, 11:04 pm

pandabear wrote:
Well, David was also known to dance with all his might while wearing nothing but a linen loin cloth.


Hoots, mon, it was nae loincloth, brother - look it up. THAT would not have bothered Michal.

Your faulty exegesis is showing again.

There is a book on the Carinthian dialect of German which includes the lyrics of some rustic folksongs which are relevant here.



DiabloDave363
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16 Jul 2011, 11:31 pm

segregating history? tolerance? tisk tisk...



pandabear
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17 Jul 2011, 1:04 pm

Remember, too, that David paid for his first wife, Michal, with 200 Philistine foreskins.

2 Samuel 6 wrote:
And David danced before the LORD with all his might; and David was girded with a linen ephod.

So David and all the house of Israel brought up the ark of the LORD with shouting, and with the sound of the trumpet.

And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.

And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts.

And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.

Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, "How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!"

And David said unto Michal, "It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD. And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour."

Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.


So, David really was the sort of bloke who enjoyed a good time: dancing around in a diaper; shamelessly uncovering himself in front of the handmaids of his servants, etc.

His wife, Michal, acts like a stick-in-the-mud Baptist. And, he says that he is going to be even more vile, and enjoy the honour of boning the maidservants of his servants.

Regarding Jonathan, David says:

2 Samuel 1 wrote:
I am distressed for thee, my brother Jonathan: very pleasant hast thou been unto me: thy love to me was wonderful, passing the love of women.


Concerning Jonathan and David kissing

1 Samuel 20 wrote:
And it came to pass in the morning, that Jonathan went out into the field at the time appointed with David, and a little lad with him. And he said unto his lad, "Run, find out now the arrows which I shoot." And as the lad ran, he shot an arrow beyond him.

And when the lad was come to the place of the arrow which Jonathan had shot, Jonathan cried after the lad, and said, "Is not the arrow beyond thee?"

And Jonathan cried after the lad, "Make speed, haste, stay not." And Jonathan's lad gathered up the arrows, and came to his master. But the lad knew not any thing: only Jonathan and David knew the matter.

And Jonathan gave his artillery unto his lad, and said unto him, "Go, carry them to the city."

And as soon as the lad was gone, David arose out of a place toward the south, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himself three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, until David exceeded.


David and Jonathan had a date in a field. Jonathan brought a lad with him, and somewhat awkwardly had the lad go back home (he didn't take the hint that he should "go off and look for arrows"), so that he and David could have some privacy.

First, David bowed down, his face on the ground, 3 times!

Then, David and Jonathan kissed each other, until David "exceeded."



Philologos
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17 Jul 2011, 2:03 pm

pandabear wrote:
Remember, too, that David paid for his first wife, Michal, with 200 Philistine foreskins.


They did not do scalplocks. Nor did they want people padding their kill tally with parts of Jewish corpses.

pandabear wrote:
" uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!"

So, David really was the sort of bloke who enjoyed a good time: dancing around in a diaper; shamelessly uncovering himself in front of the handmaids of his servants, etc.

"


I tried to tell you, O dark of eye and slow of wit.

NOT a loincloth. NOT a diaper. Och, laddy, maun I spell it oot tae ye?



pandabear
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17 Jul 2011, 2:47 pm

According to the Good News Translation

Quote:
David, wearing only a linen cloth around his waist, danced with all his might to honor the Lord.


So you're trying to emphasize that his genitals and butt were exposed?



Philologos
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17 Jul 2011, 4:19 pm

pandabear wrote:
According to the Good News Translation

Quote:
David, wearing only a linen cloth around his waist, danced with all his might to honor the Lord.


So you're trying to emphasize that his genitals and butt were exposed?


I am not trying to emphasize any such thing. I am trying to correct your misapprehension and help you understand why Michal does not have to be "like a Baptist" to find David's behavior immoderate.

I might say that David's response was as immoderate as his dancing which was at least motivated by enthusiasm.

But of course the David - Michal thing was a mistake from day one and his advisers ought to have told him not to go that route. Not that one of the Powervolk even with great God-love would have been likely to listen. They are impulsive.



pandabear
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17 Jul 2011, 4:35 pm

Philologos wrote:
But of course the David - Michal thing was a mistake from day one and his advisers ought to have told him not to go that route. Not that one of the Powervolk even with great God-love would have been likely to listen. They are impulsive.


She was the king's daughter--a prize to be had, for a mere basket-full of Philistine penis-parts.

Why shouldn't he have married her? He was certainly no worse off as a result of acquiring her.

He obviously wasn't dependent upon her for coitus. Michal just had to go without coitus after that episode.



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17 Jul 2011, 6:32 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
pandabear, again that is all just supposition, and heresay.


Again, your atrocious spelling.

Is that "hearsay", or "heresy?" Or, were you trying to coin a new word that combined both concepts?



pandabear
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17 Jul 2011, 6:35 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
That still doesn't mean that they were gay or having a homosexual relationship, they considered each other to be brothers (siblings).


Brothers with benefits.

Do you have any brothers? Or, close friends whom you regard as brothers (siblings)? If so, do you kiss each other until you exceed?



Philologos
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17 Jul 2011, 6:57 pm

pandabear wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
That still doesn't mean that they were gay or having a homosexual relationship, they considered each other to be brothers (siblings).


Brothers with benefits.

Do you have any brothers? Or, close friends whom you regard as brothers (siblings)? If so, do you kiss each other until you exceed?


Now THAT is indeed uncalled for. And critiquing spelling when it is all keyboarding and the meaning is clear is infra dig.

Play nice or I turn loose the Spellchequers [Wiccan gamers].



91
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17 Jul 2011, 8:09 pm

pandabear wrote:
exceed?


You fail at Hebrew. You are using the 1769 King James, or a derivative of it. The term exceeded refers to who cried the most and is a dreadful choice of words. A direct translation is that David wept more.

Here is the actual verse:
הַנַּעַר֮ בָּא֒ וְדָוִ֗ד קָ֚ם מֵאֵ֣צֶל הַנֶּ֔גֶב וַיִּפֹּ֨ל לְאַפָּ֥יו אַ֛רְצָה וַיִּשְׁתַּ֖חוּ שָׁלֹ֣שׁ פְּעָמִ֑ים וַֽיִּשְּׁק֣וּ ׀ אִ֣ישׁ אֶת־רֵעֵ֗הוּ וַיִּבְכּוּ֙ אִ֣ישׁ אֶת־רֵעֵ֔הוּ עַד־דָּוִ֖ד הִגְדִּֽיל׃

pandabear wrote:
First, David bowed down, his face on the ground, 3 times!


They took an oath together that essentially stopped a major political catastrophe arising out of the succession.

You have an almost gleeful time, putting forward this nonsense don't you?

*Edited spelling


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Last edited by 91 on 17 Jul 2011, 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philologos
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17 Jul 2011, 8:14 pm

91 wrote:

You have an almost gleeful time, putting forward this nonsense don't you?


Oooo. I LIKE that "almost". There is no understatement like an academic's understatrement.



pandabear
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17 Jul 2011, 8:43 pm

91 wrote:
pandabear wrote:
exceed?

You fail at Hebrew.

I don't speak Hebrew.

91 wrote:
You are using the 1769 King James, or a derivative of it.

Most likely.

91 wrote:
The term exceeded refers to who cried the most and is a dreadful choice of words. A direct translation is that David wept more.

Are you sure?

91 wrote:
Here is the actual verse:
הַנַּעַר֮ בָּא֒ וְדָוִ֗ד קָ֚ם מֵאֵ֣צֶל הַנֶּ֔גֶב וַיִּפֹּ֨ל לְאַפָּ֥יו אַ֛רְצָה וַיִּשְׁתַּ֖חוּ שָׁלֹ֣שׁ פְּעָמִ֑ים וַֽיִּשְּׁק֣וּ ׀ אִ֣ישׁ אֶת־רֵעֵ֗הוּ וַיִּבְכּוּ֙ אִ֣ישׁ אֶת־רֵעֵ֔הוּ עַד־דָּוִ֖ד הִגְדִּֽיל׃

It is all Greek to me. A footnote in my Good News Bible reads "Probable text David's grief was even greater than Jonathan's; Hebrew unclear." Given that the Hebrew is unclear, my interpretation might be closer to what really happened.

91 wrote:
pandabear wrote:
First, David bowed down, his face on the ground, 3 times!


They took an oath together that essentially stopped a major political catastrophe arising out of the succession.

Saul and Jonathan ended up killed in battle. How did their oath "stop a major political catastrophe arising out of the succession?" You are reading far too much into this passage.

The next passage reads
I Samuel 20 wrote:
And Jonathan said to David, "Go in peace, forasmuch as we have sworn both of us in the name of the LORD, saying, 'The LORD be between me and thee, and between my seed and thy seed for ever.'" And he arose and departed: and Jonathan went into the city.

That sounds just like the sort of thing that two gay men might say to each other after sex, doesn't it?

91 wrote:
You have an almost gleeful time, putting forward this nonsense don't you?

I am almost exceeding in my pants.

91 wrote:
*Edited spelling

Yes, I am a stickler about spelling.



Last edited by pandabear on 17 Jul 2011, 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Philologos
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17 Jul 2011, 8:53 pm

pandabear wrote:

It is all Greek to me. A footnote in my Good News Bible reads "Probable text David's grief was even greater than Jonathan's; Hebrew unclear." Given that the Hebrew is unclear, my interpretation might be closer to what really happened..


You do NOT, motl, in a venu patrolled by a long term academic, scholar, and pedant, son of two Classicists, grandson of two lawyers, say that HEBREW "is Greek to you". Beware lest I rise up and smite.

I might even sic ruveyn on you.

You want to say "Greek to me", aim at the Greek NT or the Septuagint!