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Sweetleaf
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30 Jul 2011, 4:50 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
He is a terrorist...terrorism=commiting an act of violence to get a point across or bring attention to an extremist cause. what explains why he admits it was atrocious but does not assume criminal responsibility. I mean what is it better if he is considered mentally ill then if he is considered a white, christian terrorist which is what he is.


He views it as necessary evil ... kind of like people who support capital punishment.


Killing a bunch of kids to prove muslims are evil people that should not be tolerated is a nessisary evil? Yes that sort of logic does exist in extremism and terrorism.

And are people who support capital punishment mentally ill? someone being a terroist does not make them mentally ill either.......I mean the last thing we need is people assuming mentally ill people are more likely to become terrorists than anyone else.



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30 Jul 2011, 4:50 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:

I would not feel sorry for that terrorist if he gets killed...not saying I don't care at all what drives some people to get to that point but that does not make them less guilty. I mean in my mind as I said there is a difference between having a mental disorder like PTSD for instance having someone trigger it and then being unable to control your possibly violent reaction to them...........and deciding to follow an extremist ideology and commit an act of terrorism to bring more attention to the cause.......its disgusting all those kids had to die so this guy could get more attention for his extremist cause.


if you saw him drowning, would you not lend a hand? (like that old Phil Collins song)



Sweetleaf
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30 Jul 2011, 4:55 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

I would not feel sorry for that terrorist if he gets killed...not saying I don't care at all what drives some people to get to that point but that does not make them less guilty. I mean in my mind as I said there is a difference between having a mental disorder like PTSD for instance having someone trigger it and then being unable to control your possibly violent reaction to them...........and deciding to follow an extremist ideology and commit an act of terrorism to bring more attention to the cause.......its disgusting all those kids had to die so this guy could get more attention for his extremist cause.


if you saw him drowning, would you not lend a hand? (like that old Phil Collins song)


Maybe, maybe not I am not exactly sure......I would like to say I could do that, but I would have to be in that situatuation.



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30 Jul 2011, 4:57 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
anna-banana wrote:

this is only your guess and nothing more.

he is being evaluated by 3 psychiatrists now and soon we'll know more details. for the time being, you are assuming that he is a poor tortured soul because this is what you want to believe.


so you're saying he could choose to care if he wanted to? free will just doesn't make any sense. he doesn't care because he can't care.


now you're appealing to your own ignorance. just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that it can't be true.

nobody *knows* what his mental state is. why do you claim to know what it is?


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30 Jul 2011, 4:58 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

I would not feel sorry for that terrorist if he gets killed...not saying I don't care at all what drives some people to get to that point but that does not make them less guilty. I mean in my mind as I said there is a difference between having a mental disorder like PTSD for instance having someone trigger it and then being unable to control your possibly violent reaction to them...........and deciding to follow an extremist ideology and commit an act of terrorism to bring more attention to the cause.......its disgusting all those kids had to die so this guy could get more attention for his extremist cause.


if you saw him drowning, would you not lend a hand? (like that old Phil Collins song)


Maybe, maybe not I am not exactly sure......I would like to say I could do that, but I would have to be in that situatuation.


You would like to say you would save him or you would hope you would have the courage to let him die?



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30 Jul 2011, 5:01 pm

anna-banana wrote:

now you're appealing to your own ignorance. just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that it can't be true.

nobody *knows* what his mental state is. why do you claim to know what it is?


I'm just saying free will is impossible because all of our actions are the result of our internal balancing of incentives. It's impossible to do something you don't truly want to do. Even the martyr does it because they think God will reward them, the person who dies for their principles does it because they would suffer more giving up their principle than they would in death.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:06 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:

I would not feel sorry for that terrorist if he gets killed...not saying I don't care at all what drives some people to get to that point but that does not make them less guilty. I mean in my mind as I said there is a difference between having a mental disorder like PTSD for instance having someone trigger it and then being unable to control your possibly violent reaction to them...........and deciding to follow an extremist ideology and commit an act of terrorism to bring more attention to the cause.......its disgusting all those kids had to die so this guy could get more attention for his extremist cause.


if you saw him drowning, would you not lend a hand? (like that old Phil Collins song)


Maybe, maybe not I am not exactly sure......I would like to say I could do that, but I would have to be in that situatuation.


You would like to say you would save him or you would hope you would have the courage to let him die?


I am saying I would like to put my differences aside to save anyone even satan himself, but I don't know if I would be able to.....and even then if I did save him from drowning like in your example if he turned around and tried to kill me or someone else then yeah I would defend myself or others and kill him if I had to.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:10 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
I am saying I would like to put my differences aside to save anyone even satan himself, but I don't know if I would be able to.....and even then if I did save him from drowning like in your example if he turned around and tried to kill me or someone else then yeah I would defend myself or others and kill him if I had to.


oh okay. so deep down, you still have SOME sympathy for even the worst people? but would harm them if it were the only way to save others or yourself?



anna-banana
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30 Jul 2011, 5:10 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
anna-banana wrote:

now you're appealing to your own ignorance. just because you don't understand it doesn't mean that it can't be true.

nobody *knows* what his mental state is. why do you claim to know what it is?


I'm just saying free will is impossible because all of our actions are the result of our internal balancing of incentives. It's impossible to do something you don't truly want to do. Even the martyr does it because they think God will reward them, the person who dies for their principles does it because they would suffer more giving up their principle than they would in death.


again, this is only your belief. the philosophical argument on free will is still very much open and will probably never be conclusively closed. Michio Kaku admits that he believes in chaos and indeterminism and you can't call *him* unintelligent and not well-versed enough to know what he's talking about.

so believe what you will, but maybe try to add some more ambiguity to your statements. none of us knows it all :wink:


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30 Jul 2011, 5:11 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
oh okay. so deep down, you still have SOME sympathy for even the worst people?


I don't; anyone that does is frankly deranged.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:12 pm

complete determinism is physically impossible as we know physics today.


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donnie_darko
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30 Jul 2011, 5:13 pm

Oodain wrote:
complete determinism is physically impossible as we know physics today.


Yes, that's true. But chaos does not equal free will, any more than intelligent design equals Yahweh, or than a dice has free will.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:14 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I am saying I would like to put my differences aside to save anyone even satan himself, but I don't know if I would be able to.....and even then if I did save him from drowning like in your example if he turned around and tried to kill me or someone else then yeah I would defend myself or others and kill him if I had to.


oh okay. so deep down, you still have SOME sympathy for even the worst people? but would harm them if it were the only way to save others or yourself?


Yeah though its not that deep down, I am fairly open about it.



donnie_darko
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30 Jul 2011, 5:21 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I am saying I would like to put my differences aside to save anyone even satan himself, but I don't know if I would be able to.....and even then if I did save him from drowning like in your example if he turned around and tried to kill me or someone else then yeah I would defend myself or others and kill him if I had to.


oh okay. so deep down, you still have SOME sympathy for even the worst people? but would harm them if it were the only way to save others or yourself?


Yeah though its not that deep down, I am fairly open about it.


I hope i didn't offend you by the way. It's just I have had some bad thoughts, due to my OCD and also bad sexual thoughts which are connected to the anxiety I've felt since I was a small child, and I feel really guilty about them and I'm always afraid that my OCD would overcome me and I would do something and nobody would love me anymore. :( But I am a very loving, caring person so I don't think I would ever hurt anyone.

So I feel kind of bad for anyone who's done bad things because I know that it's possible they could have started out as great people but then deteriorated because of anxiety. My anxiety has become so bad that sometimes I can't think about anyone or anything else, but the anxiety, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of crazy shooters and stuff used to be loving caring people but their anxiety destroyed them.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:31 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I am saying I would like to put my differences aside to save anyone even satan himself, but I don't know if I would be able to.....and even then if I did save him from drowning like in your example if he turned around and tried to kill me or someone else then yeah I would defend myself or others and kill him if I had to.


oh okay. so deep down, you still have SOME sympathy for even the worst people? but would harm them if it were the only way to save others or yourself?


Yeah though its not that deep down, I am fairly open about it.


I hope i didn't offend you by the way. It's just I have had some bad thoughts, due to my OCD and also bad sexual thoughts which are connected to the anxiety I've felt since I was a small child, and I feel really guilty about them and I'm always afraid that my OCD would overcome me and I would do something and nobody would love me anymore. :( But I am a very loving, caring person so I don't think I would ever hurt anyone.

So I feel kind of bad for anyone who's done bad things because I know that it's possible they could have started out as great people but then deteriorated because of anxiety. My anxiety has become so bad that sometimes I can't think about anyone or anything else, but the anxiety, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of crazy shooters and stuff used to be loving caring people but their anxiety destroyed them.


No. Good people are like you, since you are worried that there is something inside yourself that could harm others.
Bad people have never cared that what was negative inside might someday get out and hurt others. In fact, they live for the day, fantasizing about it, over and over.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Sweetleaf
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30 Jul 2011, 5:33 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I am saying I would like to put my differences aside to save anyone even satan himself, but I don't know if I would be able to.....and even then if I did save him from drowning like in your example if he turned around and tried to kill me or someone else then yeah I would defend myself or others and kill him if I had to.


oh okay. so deep down, you still have SOME sympathy for even the worst people? but would harm them if it were the only way to save others or yourself?


Yeah though its not that deep down, I am fairly open about it.


I hope i didn't offend you by the way. It's just I have had some bad thoughts, due to my OCD and also bad sexual thoughts which are connected to the anxiety I've felt since I was a small child, and I feel really guilty about them and I'm always afraid that my OCD would overcome me and I would do something and nobody would love me anymore. :( But I am a very loving, caring person so I don't think I would ever hurt anyone.

So I feel kind of bad for anyone who's done bad things because I know that it's possible they could have started out as great people but then deteriorated because of anxiety. My anxiety has become so bad that sometimes I can't think about anyone or anything else, but the anxiety, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of crazy shooters and stuff used to be loving caring people but their anxiety destroyed them.


No I am not offended, and I see your point with that......I mean I have had pleanty of thoughts I would rather not have had. But I feel like its my responsibility to choose what I do with those thoughts but yes I can see how someone could start out as a good person and end up taking things too far and doing something horrible.