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If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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Oodain
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30 Jul 2011, 4:53 am

yes because six months of constant discomfort to remind you of the fact you were raped is just what people need in these situations, especially to save what cannot feel itself being removed.


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Philologos
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30 Jul 2011, 11:26 am

Oodain wrote:
yes because six months of constant discomfort to remind you of the fact you were raped is just what people need in these situations, especially to save what cannot feel itself being removed.


Look well, O wolves. if you find your enemy sleeping, and administer an anaesthetic, it is then legitimate to "remove" him.

I gotta find me a supplier for that stuff.



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30 Jul 2011, 11:30 am

AceOfSpades wrote:
Sorry if you weren't doing that by purpose but the title has a question mark so it should've been clear that donnie was asking for your imput.


I could assemble a good long list of ? thread heads that even to my literally tending mind cannot be construed as genuine qiestions.

The ambiguity exists, and if I do not have a solid sense of the poster's track record, I sometimes have to ask.

I get quite enough of "You missed the point, how could you not see he was talking about Free Silver" as it is.



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30 Jul 2011, 2:12 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
DentArthurDent wrote:
Forget that, that's what shotguns are for: dealing with manipulators who deserve to die.
.


Damn. How different are you from an abuser really, if your compassion is that conditional? I've never got the idea that vengeful people really cared about the victims. I more get the idea they are bloodthirsty but care too much about the law and what people think of them to say such things about people who haven't done anything wrong.

To me, caring about the victims and the offender goes hand in hand. Both people are damaged, both need help, etc.



Last edited by donnie_darko on 30 Jul 2011, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sweetleaf
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30 Jul 2011, 2:19 pm

Philologos wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I think as long as the abortion takes place before it develops into a baby it is fine......


Po po po po po, and an extra oi moi.

Pour yourself a cuppa and smell the coffee.

http://www.zazzle.com/thimk_by_boynton_ ... 7724823898


I don't get it...I guess I am a bit slow sometimes.



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30 Jul 2011, 2:21 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
blunnet wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If she doesn't want the baby, then adoption

Abortion is another option given that they can, legally (for good) if they choose to. There are women who would not want to have their rapist's fetus inside of them at all, not even in thought, (they shouldn't and who could blame them). So, it comes to: the termination of the pregnancy of a raped woman, her right.


I answered the topic how I chose to. If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?


I am pretty sure a fetus and an 18 year old are different things.......also an abortion could probably take place before the embryo even develops into a proper fetus.



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30 Jul 2011, 2:25 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
blunnet wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If she doesn't want the baby, then adoption

Abortion is another option given that they can, legally (for good) if they choose to. There are women who would not want to have their rapist's fetus inside of them at all, not even in thought, (they shouldn't and who could blame them). So, it comes to: the termination of the pregnancy of a raped woman, her right.


I answered the topic how I chose to. If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?


I am pretty sure a fetus and an 18 year old are different things.......also an abortion could probably take place before the embryo even develops into a proper fetus.


I think the morning-after pill is a good choice for rape, though obviously some women are gonna be too shell-shocked to consider it until it's too late. I guess my problem with abortion in general is it values 'choice' over life itself. While I don't really think a fetus is a full on human being, I dislike the idea of abortion in principle just because it seems abhorrent to me that killing an unborn baby should be considered a right.

I think whether or not a woman has been raped, abortion should be an option if her medical history has depression, self-harm, etc in it, or if the woman is under 15.



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30 Jul 2011, 2:33 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
blunnet wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If she doesn't want the baby, then adoption

Abortion is another option given that they can, legally (for good) if they choose to. There are women who would not want to have their rapist's fetus inside of them at all, not even in thought, (they shouldn't and who could blame them). So, it comes to: the termination of the pregnancy of a raped woman, her right.


I answered the topic how I chose to. If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?


I am pretty sure a fetus and an 18 year old are different things.......also an abortion could probably take place before the embryo even develops into a proper fetus.


I think the morning-after pill is a good choice for rape, though obviously some women are gonna be too shell-shocked to consider it until it's too late. I guess my problem with abortion in general is it values 'choice' over life itself. While I don't really think a fetus is a full on human being, I dislike the idea of abortion in principle just because it seems abhorrent to me that killing an unborn baby should be considered a right.

I think whether or not a woman has been raped, abortion should be an option if her medical history has depression, self-harm, etc in it, or if the woman is under 15.


Well a baby is not what it starts out as...I don't think it is right to kill babies, but I think it is ok to abort something that will develop into a baby in some circumstances rape definitly being one of them. Also just because her medical history might not have depression or self harm does not mean she would be able to handle it.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:07 pm

Montana2Clark wrote:
In a hypothetical situation where abortion laws contain a 'rape exception' provision, how does the state determine that a rape occurred (thereby permitting an abortion procedure)? In the US legal system, the accused rapist is presumed innocent until found guilty by a jury. Therefore, in order for the 'rape exception' to be correctly administered, the impregnated female would have to wait until someone was convicted of raping her.


Umm no, not necessarily. In South Africa, it was legal for rape victims to have abortions since the 70's, long before abortion was legalized in the 1996. Before 1996, abortion was technically illegal but with a 'rape exception' in place. However, the 'rape exception' did not require a conviction actual conviction to happen first, nor did it require the women to go to a court. Evidence that there was a rape is all that would be needed.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:12 pm

Jono wrote:

Umm no, not necessarily. In South Africa, it was legal for rape victims to have abortions since the 70's, long before abortion was legalized in the 1996. Before 1996, abortion was technically illegal but with a 'rape exception' in place. However, the 'rape exception' did not require a conviction actual conviction to happen first, nor did it require the women to go to a court. Evidence that there was a rape is all that would be needed.


Yeah I guess my issue with that is if you're pro-life EXCEPT in the case of rape, it means you accept the unborn as a full human, yet if rape is involved, you feel they should die. To me that's tantamount to an honor killing.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:15 pm

doctors can determine if a rape was likely with quite good precision, there would be very few exceptions.

best option, make first trimester legal to anyone that wants them, with the consent of the father or similar (with the rape exception being aplied to this part of the law)


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30 Jul 2011, 5:23 pm

Oodain wrote:
doctors can determine if a rape was likely with quite good precision, there would be very few exceptions.


Doubt it, especially in non-violent situations.



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30 Jul 2011, 5:31 pm

in non violent situations a doctor wouldnt be able to conclude anything, you are right.

but in a violent situation the shape and size of tears is very indicative of wheter a rape has occured or not,


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30 Jul 2011, 6:14 pm

Oodain wrote:
but in a violent situation the shape and size of tears is very indicative of wheter a rape has occured or not,


What about those women that have violent sex/ravishment tendencies? Wouldn't it also be difficult to tell in some of those circumstances also?



Oodain
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30 Jul 2011, 6:36 pm

yes but that would most likely happen with a consentual partner
i also think there is quite a difference in degree, some rape victims are torn to the point of reconstructive surgery,
i dont know the details but i they also look at the direction of the tears and the location as it can tell something about the general conditions surrounding her "unknown sexual activity"
i think that these examinations are done with such care and effort(at least in demark) and i think all of these facotrs is only the top of the iceberg of what they look at.
you have bruises, grip marks and an almost countless amount of other factors being considered, i think they get it right more often than not, there is a reason it is valid evidence in court and that it carries a lot of wheight.


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31 Jul 2011, 12:21 am

Tequila wrote:
Oodain wrote:
doctors can determine if a rape was likely with quite good precision, there would be very few exceptions.


Doubt it, especially in non-violent situations.

Tequila is right on this. Rapes involving drugs or alcohol (possibly the largest number of rapes as a whole), as well as those involving power disparities where a woman is too frightened to fight back, generally don't involve a huge amount of violent physical damage to the victim.