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Sweetleaf
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11 Dec 2011, 4:38 am

Dox47 wrote:
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Well it looked to me like he was very clear that he is strongly pro-life, but hey if he's willing to leave it up to the states I'll stay in my state and it's all good. If he will also allow states to decide themselves on the marijuana issue that would be awesome to. Also In this thread there was talk of cutting public services/government programs that help people..........I would hope if he got elected his goal would not be to cut those things........if he wants to reform stuff so its more efficient then I would be alright with that.


Look at it this way, if Ron Paul were elected his top priorities are things like bringing troops home and slashing programs that are both wasteful and illiberal, like the drug war. By the time he got down to the social services you're thinking of, he'd of cut so much already that they'd look downright affordable.

That's an area where libertarians in general are poorly understood and often unfairly portrayed, we don't want people starving in the streets and we don't want an end to government services, the majority of what we want is a rollback of authoritarian government agencies and policies. Spend tax money on education programs or assistance for the disabled? No problem! It's the spending on locking people up for getting high or spreading "democracy" by the gun that we tend to object to.


Hmm this may be something to look more into, I'll admit the drug war thing is rather important to me......After all the legal consequences for using drugs tend to be much worse than the effects of the drugs themselves though it would depend on the drugs but I am pretty sure getting arrested for smoking a joint for instance would probably do more harm to that individual than the joint they are smoking would.


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Dox47
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11 Dec 2011, 5:58 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I am pretty sure getting arrested for smoking a joint for instance would probably do more harm to that individual than the joint they are smoking would.


I can't cite the source off the top of my head, but I believe it was Kaiser-Permanente who did a fairly exhaustive study on marijuana usage and it's effects, and concluded that the biggest health risk was incarceration. But to the drug warriors, it's better to be raped in a holding cell than high... :roll:


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Sweetleaf
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11 Dec 2011, 6:03 am

Dox47 wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
I am pretty sure getting arrested for smoking a joint for instance would probably do more harm to that individual than the joint they are smoking would.


I can't cite the source off the top of my head, but I believe it was Kaiser-Permanente who did a fairly exhaustive study on marijuana usage and it's effects, and concluded that the biggest health risk was incarceration. But to the drug warriors, it's better to be raped in a holding cell than high... :roll:


Well I wonder which one they would prefer.


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dmm1010
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11 Dec 2011, 6:26 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
[...] So it would be up to the state to provide such programs? That could be good because the feds suck. [...]

Yes, if a Federal program was given the metaphorical axe then each state would be left to choose whether to re-implement that program.



Last edited by dmm1010 on 11 Dec 2011, 7:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

Chronos
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11 Dec 2011, 6:30 am

GoonSquad wrote:
Chronos wrote:
[

My academic program was incredibly rigorous and I am of the opinion that it shouldn't have been so much so. The program was very information intensive and a lot of that information was actually irrelevant to the real world work place, so people were wasting enormous amounts of time memorizing things it was irrelevant to memorize. In addition, though the program was an extended program, longer than most college programs, they still attempted to cram too much information in too little time. This resulted in heavy grade curving because the reality was, uncurved, the average grade was a D, even though the subject itself shouldn't have been difficult.

It reduced what should have been a positive academic environment to who could sleep the least, work the fastest, memorize the most useless information, and cheat best. I was bumped up an entire grade via the curve in one course when 20 people were failed for cheating.

People graduated the program knowing little and understanding less.


Ahh, a business major! :lol:

That really doesn't sound like a rigorous program to me, just a bad one... :?

Memorization and regurgitation isn't education.


No, it was not a business major.



Chronos
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11 Dec 2011, 6:39 am

GoonSquad wrote:
dmm1010 wrote:
Chronos wrote:
They could limit it to practical majors such as science, engineering, accounting, business, law, medicine, mathematics, statistics, economics, and teaching.

Ah, I only wish; but, surely many would complain that we're stifling creativity or some such nonsense by not including in that list arts and humanities. :roll:


Naa, states do that all the time.

I live in a lottery scholarship state and the lottery scholarship (for nontraditional students) has all sorts of restrictions based on merit and major. You won't get it unless you have a near perfect GPA in a Science/Engineering/Math related field of study.


However, I think neglecting the humanities/classical subjects is why society is going to hell in a hand basket.

American society was conceived by men with classical educations to be run by men with classical educations.

The reason society is deteriorating so much is because people no longer understand why things need to be done a certain way....


I agree that arts and humanities is very important to society. The problem is, job options in many of these fields are severely limited and it can be difficult, if not impossible, for individuals who major in these field to recoup their college costs because they are unable to get jobs in those fields that pay enough.

Grants are ultimately funded by tax payers, under the logic that people who receive the grants will become productive members of society, and the grants will be recouped from those individuals in the form of taxes to be redistributed to others for the same purpose. Those who cannot get jobs after graduating make the system difficult to sustain.

Should one really need to have a degree in art to be an artist? In most instances, I don't think so.



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11 Dec 2011, 4:35 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5dbqyqqHxg[/youtube]



dr01dguy
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11 Dec 2011, 6:37 pm

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If the demand fell, prices would naturally fall as well and then maybe education would actually be affordable.


It would be nice to think so, but they wouldn't.

Tuition at public universities has skyrocketed over the past 20 years, but tuition at private universities has more or less just doubled. If you compare that to the official inflation rate, it looks outrageous... until you realize that the official inflation rate is completely bogus anyway. Compare the cost of a Big Mac Meal, a 2 bedroom townhouse or condo, a gallon of gas, and what you would have paid for a new car comparable to the one you have now back in 1991 to their current prices, and try to seriously argue that the Fed wasn't completely full of $#!t in its belief that inflation didn't exist for the better part of 20 years. Computers have gotten a lot cheaper, but the cost of nearly everything else has basically doubled.

Another part of the problem is the fact that a "4-year degree" is a political crack fantasy. I don't know anybody who literally graduated in 8 semesters. I know a few who semi-faked it by taking summer classes to do the equivalent of 5-6 years of two semesters per year in 4 calendar years, but literally graduating 120 credits and 48 months after the start of their freshman year? You've got to be kidding. It just doesn't happen anymore.

I was lucky enough to go to a medium-sized private university that was pretty expensive, but in retrospect was extraordinarily Aspie-friendly. I had maybe 3 classes with more than 40 students, and most of them had 10-20. Our advisors bent over backwards to keep us on track, and we were aggressively encouraged to take classes in our intended major "early and often" starting from Day One. My advisor made a point of trying to expose me to classes he thought I'd find interesting, and did it in a way that let me kill two birds with one stone (satisfying general ed. requirements AND satisfying the prerequisites of no fewer than a half-dozen possible majors, so I could avoid getting to the "point of no return" until literally the second semester of my junior year. It was expensive, and I think I was absolutely worth every penny compared to the alternative (life-long poverty).

Remember, when politicians talk about "innovations" to make higher education "more affordable", they're generally talking about things that are about as Aspie/ADD-hostile as you can get. I would have failed miserably if I'd been thrown into a psychotic zoo with 40,000 other students to sink, swim, or (more likely) get eaten alive. How many Aspies with ADD could really survive, let alone thrive, taking online classes that consist mainly of watching recorded videos? Now add in those who aren't supra-geniuses able to compensate through brute force, and you've just condemned an entire generation of Aspie kids to de-facto unemployment (because most of the careers with substantial creative freedom where an Aspie can genuinely thrive have college degrees as non-negotiable entry requirements).


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NextFact
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11 Dec 2011, 6:49 pm

It has long appeared to me that Ron Paul is the only candidate with a sound sense of ethics and an understanding of politics. He is the only one on the stage that radiates an aura of genuine-ness and sincerity and I wouldn't vote for anyone else, I am inspired by this man. Newt, Romney, Perry all reek of corporatism and greed, I wouldn't have anything to do with any of them. I don't understand what the attraction is with people to those 3, the American public does not know what it needs or what's good for them, and hasn't that always been the case?



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17 Dec 2011, 4:52 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMUZIVYuluc[/youtube]

This appearance makes up for the snub he got at the last debate.



DaBuddha
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17 Dec 2011, 5:23 am

Ron Paul has a lot of good ideas and a lot of crazy ideas. The problem is that everyone's on board for the crazy ideas and laugh at the good ones.



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17 Dec 2011, 5:25 am

NextFact wrote:
It has long appeared to me that Ron Paul is the only candidate with a sound sense of ethics and an understanding of politics. He is the only one on the stage that radiates an aura of genuine-ness and sincerity and I wouldn't vote for anyone else, I am inspired by this man. Newt, Romney, Perry all reek of corporatism and greed, I wouldn't have anything to do with any of them. I don't understand what the attraction is with people to those 3, the American public does not know what it needs or what's good for them, and hasn't that always been the case?


Ron Paul is one of the few pols that have any respect or regard for the U.S. Constitution. Which is a thoroughly battered and shredded document at this juncture.

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17 Dec 2011, 6:31 am

I'd vote for Ron Paul if he had even the slightest understanding of foreign policy. If the US survives another 8 years without Obama, and our relations with the world are repaired, America would be ready for a Ron Paul.

"Elrond: If Aragorn survives this war, you will still be parted. If Sauron is defeated and Aragorn made king and all that you hope for comes true - you will still have to taste the bitterness of mortality..."

I don't know why but I was reminded of that quote when thinking about Ron Paul as a valid candidate for president. But I have been watching LOTR a lot and it seems to fit the situation validly.



ruveyn
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17 Dec 2011, 11:11 am

cw10 wrote:
I'd vote for Ron Paul if he had even the slightest understanding of foreign policy. If the US survives another 8 years without Obama, and our relations with the world are repaired, America would be ready for a Ron Paul.

"Elrond: If Aragorn survives this war, you will still be parted. If Sauron is defeated and Aragorn made king and all that you hope for comes true - you will still have to taste the bitterness of mortality..."

I don't know why but I was reminded of that quote when thinking about Ron Paul as a valid candidate for president. But I have been watching LOTR a lot and it seems to fit the situation validly.


An interesting observation.

Ron Paul is no Aragorn. He would make a very bad Commander of Warriors. If he had been in charge on Dec 8, 1941 he would have said the Japanese were justified in bombing Pearl Harbor because we baited them and upset them.

In a peaceful world where governments should be limited a vinilla flavored libertarian would be just fine. But that is not the world we are living in, is it?

By the way, Obama is Saruman and Saul Alinsky is Sauron. Obama has long since sold out to the Dark Side.

ruveyn



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17 Dec 2011, 3:56 pm

We don't need a "warrior" or some crusader desiring empire to defend ourselves. I assume we're using the term "warrior" liberally here when dealing with chickenhawks that encompass the rest of the GOP field besides Jon Huntsman. Our current foreign policy makes us less safe, creates new enemies, and further isolates from the rest of the world. Not to mention, we're going broke and cannot sustain this. We don't need to nation build and buy allies or to surrender our civil liberties, all we need to do is mind our own damn business.

Ron is a big believer in a strong national defense with the emphasis being on defense. He vote for military action against Al Qaeda after 9/11 although his idea of issuing 'letters or marque and reprisal' may of saved us from the decade+ long occupation and nation building mission. If there was a verifiable threat against the United States of America, I have no doubts about Ron's ability and willingness to defend this country.

Ron's actually the only guy that can actually say he "defended" this country as he is the only candidate running that has ever served in any branch of the military. (USAF in the 1960s btw)


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8NhRPo0WAo[/youtube]



cw10
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18 Dec 2011, 4:16 am

Jacoby wrote:
Ron's actually the only guy that can actually say he "defended" this country as he is the only candidate running that has ever served in any branch of the military. (USAF in the 1960s btw)


That didn't help McCain any 4 years ago. Stupid is as stupid does.