What Has Religion Done in 2011?

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Sure, as long as you insist on using vague and loaded terms like important and beneficial. In that case the church did participate in important events (important to Christians anyway). Pope Benedict made concessions to ecumenism by meeting with leaders of other Christian denominations. This is beneficial to society from the perspective of Catholics as it moves the Church toward greater unity.

Did you see anything on the list about how many research facilities have been built or how many hours have been put into reviewing research? No because the list is about what has been achieved as a result of those things. Notice that these things also benefit everyone regardless of whether or not they know anything about scientific methodology. So why should I give a rat's ass about how many hours people spent reading the bible?

What am I supposed to acknowledge? That mass appeal is an achievement?

It is really not vague or loaded. The list Fnord prepared of scientific achievements from last year was substantial and many of the discoveries have far reaching implications that will affect people regardless of their knowledge or ignorance of said discoveries. Perhaps it is being misunderstood, but Fnord is simply asking if there is a comparable list of achievements done by the institutions of religion. Since it is argued by many theists that religion/creation is an alternative, more accurate explanation, or a methodology equal in discovering truth to science, that contributes in positive ways to society, while also arguing that rationalism and science lead to immorality; I feel it is a reasonable request to provide comparative lists of achievements that are beneficial outside of the respective "fields" of study

Religion has done much to piss me off.

Well, the Protestant Reformation introduced standardized written and spoken languages in Germany, England, Finland, and other countries where Protestantism had caught on, and with it, wide spread literacy among the populace. But I concede, none of that happened in 2011.
Instead of bitching about people criticizing Christianity and religion in general, perhaps it's time for us so called people of faith to get off our asses, and actually achieve something constructive. You know, instead of dividing and marginalizing people because of an overly literal interpretation of our holy books.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

The earliest evidence of written word or language has been in the context of religious rituals or ceremonies. But bare in mind when you refer to the Protestant Reformation the Chinese had a relatively high level of functional literacy amongst their massive population not to mention a printing industry that pre-dated the emergencey of Christianity itself, let alone modern western civilization.

What you call for Kraichgauer is the kind of tolerance and need to reconcelation in the protestant movement that eventually lead to the ideal that church and the state should be seperated AKA Secularism. Even now some European countries still have churches tied to the state, such as the Church of England here that the Monarch is the Patron of. Part of what I pay in my taxes goes towards this Church and I have no say in the matter regardless of my personal believes. And yet I live in a constitutional monarchy with a Parliament and Democratic elections and accountability.

The USA was founded on a constitution that is secular. Something rather advanced during the era in which it was written. The irony I find in a modern context is the very persecution and intolerance that lead to unwelcome religious minorities or eccentrics migrate over there is that the decendents of these settlers and pilgrims now wish to overturn the very values that prevented their religious sects ever coming into existence in the old world.

I've seen more achievements in science, medicine, and technology in 2011 than I have seen in any religion.

Rainbows, sunsets, and children's laughter not enough for you?

What do you want? A priest caught a demon in a bottle? Somebody plucked an angel feather? Ghostbusters are real?

universities existed long before christianity was even conceived, i visited one from some 400 bc,

the church might have started some somewhere but invent it, very very very far from it.

The Academy, Lyceum and Stoa for example. The Greeks did it first, and perhaps best.

ruveyn

I personally see religion as influencing the way we think today. Like 2000 years of Christianity, despite the fact that people have used it to cause a lot of trouble(although i would put it down to man being warlike and using any excuse rather than laying the blame at religions door), a lot of people have also used it as a reason to help a lot of people over the years and it's also caused generation after generation to come closer and closer behaviorally to the example set by jesus. So yeah, religion gave us 2012 in it's present form through steady behavioral reform guided by said religion. And maybe people don't need religion so much any more, it's done its job, but that doesn't mean it's contribution to the world should be ignored.

This thread is a little insulting tbh, i may be an atheist but even i can see the obvious improvements having religion has made to the world. It influenced the development of the world for the better in a lot of ways, that's good enough for me.

Yo momma.

Such as? Give us some specific examples.

Religion does not investigate nature just like science does not create aesthetic objects. That doesn't mean that science is less valuable than art or that religion is less valuable than science. They exist to serve different ends so you can't compare their achievements. If you still want to say that religion is less valuable than science, fine. But do recognize that your "far reaching" criteria is arbitrary. Most people alive right now will be dead in 100 years and the discoveries won't mean anything to them. The human race will be gone eventually too as predicted by the law of entropy. Ultimately, the discoveries mean nothing. They're not that far reaching.



This sounds made up. Who says that science leads to immorality? No major religious figure that I'm aware of has said that. Who says that religion is a methodology and an alternative to science? That is ridiculous. Rationalism has several meanings most of which are harmonious with religious belief. The OP is tilting at windmills if it was meant to address these claims.

If it is not a legitimate investigative tool then why do many theists want it treated this way (creationism... intelligent design... etc)? Why does kxmode count thousands of hours of Bible study (investigation...) as an achievement? In your view they exist to serve different ends. In my view they do as well. Unfortunately a great deal of religious people do not see it this way. Thus Fnord's challenge is legitimate; if one wants to make the claim they are equal, then back it up. This thread is tongue in cheek, in a way.

I also don't see how you can dismiss the discoveries made as ultimately meaningless due to the lifespan of people alive at this time, when you earlier brought up the role religion had in bringing about the university system. Those people alive at that time died long before the far-reaching results of the system came to fruition; does this make it meaningless? How can you say the discoveries made this year are not far reaching? Dismissing the achievements of science does not support a pro-religion line of argument



I wish it was made up. I am finding this line of argument you are engaging in extremely amusing. You yourself are one of those supporters of creationism, are you not? Creationism is touted as an alternative explanation than the one currently offered by science. I'm so tired of theists going back and forth on this issue. Is it science or is it fluff? "Teaching the controversy" does not mean anything to you? If you yourself feel it is not an alternative, then good, you are a reasonable person, but do not pretend that a great deal of theists don't see it this way

There is really nothing rational about religion