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snapcap
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17 Jan 2012, 6:31 pm

JWC wrote:
snapcap wrote:
JWC wrote:

It doesn't matter how it came to be. The moment something comes into existence there is evidence of it's existence, even if that evidence goes unrecognized.


I think so, but you said if you can't provide conclusive evidence, it can't exist. If it goes unrecognized, you can't provide it.


Something cannot exist without there being some evidence of it somewhere. Proof of that existence requires conclusive evidence.


Your right, but can you think of something that you can definitively say is "unnatural", with no possibility of existing, even without evidence?

I actually have a thread asking the question.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt185009.html


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JWC
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17 Jan 2012, 7:51 pm

snapcap wrote:
JWC wrote:
snapcap wrote:
JWC wrote:

It doesn't matter how it came to be. The moment something comes into existence there is evidence of it's existence, even if that evidence goes unrecognized.


I think so, but you said if you can't provide conclusive evidence, it can't exist. If it goes unrecognized, you can't provide it.


Something cannot exist without there being some evidence of it somewhere. Proof of that existence requires conclusive evidence.


Your right, but can you think of something that you can definitively say is "unnatural", with no possibility of existing, even without evidence?

I actually have a thread asking the question.

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt185009.html


Not off of the top of my head.



artrat
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18 Jan 2012, 3:50 am

JWC wrote:
artrat wrote:
I don't believe in magic but I have no proof that it does not exsist..


Common fallacy. There is no such thing as proof of non-existence. Only existence can be proven.

Science has not disproven magic since it is in the mind.

Can existence really be proven?


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JWC
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18 Jan 2012, 9:43 am

artrat wrote:
JWC wrote:
artrat wrote:
I don't believe in magic but I have no proof that it does not exsist..


Common fallacy. There is no such thing as proof of non-existence. Only existence can be proven.

Science has not disproven magic since it is in the mind.

Can existence really be proven?


Quote:
The person making a negative claim cannot logically prove nonexistence. And here's why: to know that a X does not exist would require a perfect knowledge of all things (omniscience). To attain this knowledge would require simultaneous access to all parts of the world and beyond (omnipresence). Therefore, to be certain of the claim that X does not exist one would have to possess abilities that are non-existent. Obviously, mankind's limited nature precludes these special abilities. The claim that X does not exist is therefore unjustifiable. As logician Mortimer Adler has pointed out, the attempt to prove a universal negative is a self- defeating proposition. These claims are "worldwide existential negatives." They are only a small class of all possible negatives. They cannot be established by direct observation because no single human observer can cover the whole earth at one time in order to declare by personal authority that any “X” doesn't exist.


http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/pecorip/scccweb/etexts/phil_of_religion_text/chapter_5_arguments_experience/burden-of-proof.htm