Why haven't extraterrestrials made their presence known?

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Fnord
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04 Feb 2012, 10:23 pm

snapcap wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Oodain wrote:

Fnord wrote:

Space travel doesn't occur until Tech Level 6. Interstellar Travel doesn't appear until Tech Level 8. We're currently at Tech Level 7.

depends on the scale,

I use the Miller scale. But I made a mistake. I was off by one point in two of the categories. Here are the correct values: Space travel doesn't occur until Tech Level 7. Interstellar Travel doesn't appear until Tech Level 9. We're currently at Tech Level 7.

What's that got to do with the Miller Scale?Miller Scale

That's the wrong Miller Scale.

simon_says
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05 Feb 2012, 1:18 am

shrox wrote:

Plain and simple, we just don't know.

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.

I know life emerged on at least one planet and I know the universe is a very big place.

But Ive never seen a god or elf. Not one.

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05 Feb 2012, 1:39 am

shrox wrote:

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.

We know that lifeforms exist, and we understand (roughly) how lifeforms come into existence. There is no reason to think that it couldn't happen elsewhere.

We don't know that gods exist, and we certainly don't know anything about them even if they do exist.

TM
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05 Feb 2012, 10:34 am

shrox wrote:

Plain and simple, we just don't know.

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.

The idea of a benevolent god doesn't "work" with the Earth we live on. If we use the Christian god with the characteristics of omni-benevolence, omnipotence and omniscience, these characteristics are inconsistent with the Earth on which we live, therefore such a god does not exist. Now, a benevolent god without omnipotence and omniscience is plausible, or rather cannot be refuted in the same manner, however without the power to do benevolent actions or the power to see where they are required at all times, that is not a being worthy of being called a god.

The idea of benevolent aliens is, believe it or not more plausible given the amount of planets that exist.

shrox
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05 Feb 2012, 12:15 pm

TM wrote:

shrox wrote:

Plain and simple, we just don't know.

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.

Did I say Christian god?

Jono
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05 Feb 2012, 12:32 pm

AspieRogue wrote:

Furthermore, the massive galaxy M87 has a jet of matter spewing out of its center that appears to be moving 6-8 times the speed of light. Some astrophysicists try to explain this away as an optical illusion caused by the curvature of space-time around the galaxy itself; but even that explanation is problematic because special relativity predicts that nothing can even appear to move faster than light since the speed of light is a universal reference frame in its own right!

Not some astrophysicists but all of them agree that this is an illusion but it's not due to the curvature of space-time. The jet is actually moving slower than light and is therefore not superluminal. In fact, no experiment or observation has ever shown anything to be traveling faster than light, other than the recent OPERA experiment at CERN which has yet to be verified.

visagrunt
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06 Feb 2012, 12:02 pm

Think about the amount of effort and resources that are required to travel interstellar distances, and to return home within anything like a reasonable timeframe.

No society has infinite resources, so every society must make choices about the uses to which those resources are put. Rational decision making will always favour the expenditure of reources that creates the best benefit. So what's the benefit of visiting this planet? Or indeed any planet?

If you can bring back more resources than it cost you to get there--all to the good.
If you can find a place to relocate your population, that might be necessary.

But the likelihood of either of these circumstances is remote, and the number of planets that such an expedition might visit so large that the possibility that extraterrestrial visitors have been here is slim to nil.

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06 Feb 2012, 12:08 pm

I don't know. Why haven't you made your presence known to that ant nest out in the middle of the Arizona desert?

simon_says
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06 Feb 2012, 12:17 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Investments are relative. It took resources to send the Voyager probes, which are just now leaving our solar system. To an ancient culture that was an unimaginable investment in time, wealth and knowledge. But that was just a tiny drop in the bucket to a 20th century economy. As technology advances it's difficult to predict costs for a given activity.

As for destinations. I think it would be unlikely to be a random visit. Just as NASA is looking for Earth like environments it's not difficult to imagine 02 based life looking for places like Earth. They'd see them from far away without having to visit. Assuming they exist.

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06 Feb 2012, 12:28 pm

o2 based life forms??
how do they look?

usually you class life by its common conector, carbon in our case, silicon is possible,
oxygen seems like it would be too reactive to create the base of life, a vuital component to some life, certainly.

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06 Feb 2012, 12:33 pm

Burzum wrote:

I don't know. Why haven't you made your presence known to that ant nest out in the middle of the Arizona desert?

Earth has been broadcasting our presence since the invention of radio. Television broadcasts practically makes us glow.

simon_says
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06 Feb 2012, 12:39 pm

Oodain wrote:

Meaning they breathe O2. The point is that life of one type will naturally look for the habitats of similar life, as NASA is doing. A search for life wouldnt be random visits to random rocks.

Burzum
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06 Feb 2012, 12:39 pm

shrox wrote:

Earth has been broadcasting our presence since the invention of radio. Television broadcasts practically makes us glow.

I think you have misinterpreted my question. The question is not of whether or not aliens know we exist, but of why they should have reason to even give our existence a second thought. You and I both know there are ant nests in the desert in Arizona, so then why have you not made your presence known to them?

TM
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06 Feb 2012, 1:09 pm

shrox wrote:

TM wrote:

shrox wrote:

Plain and simple, we just don't know.

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.

Did I say Christian god?

No, I used that to clarify the sentence that came after it, where I address the idea of a god that is simply benevolent. It depends entirely on what other characteristics your intended god has, Simply being benevolent doesn't make a creature a god, so there needs to be more information. If we take a god defined as "A being of supernatural powers or attributes" such a creature would have to, by definition have powers beyond what is possible within the natural realm. Whereas benevolent aliens are completely plausible within the natural realm.

The logic for that goes as follows:

If the universe has a planet that can support life, it can contain more than one planet that supports life.

The universe has a planet that can support life.

Therefore, the universe can contain more than one planet that can support life.

If life exists on earth, life can exist elsewhere in the universe.

Life exists on earth.

Therefore life can exist elsewhere in the universe.

Sorry, I was going to post this yesterday but the forums crashed on me.

shrox
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06 Feb 2012, 1:20 pm

TM wrote:

shrox wrote:

TM wrote:

shrox wrote:

Plain and simple, we just don't know.

It's funny how people will project chances of existence for benevolent aliens off the Earth, but scoff at any chance of a benevolent god off the Earth.

Did I say Christian god?

Can life exist outside our universe? What would interactions with it be like? We can't reach it, but can it reach us?

Asp-Z
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06 Feb 2012, 1:24 pm

Aliens just don't wanna end up on TV.

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