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why I have problems with anti-theism... to put it simply

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Joker
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21 Apr 2012, 9:12 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
I think you are just singleing out those who are christian their are a lot of religions you could bring up as a example.


Um, no. I was talking about bigotry that is accepted be society, and in the society I live in (I am in the UK), that is predominantly Christian homophobia. I'm not talking about gays getting hanged in Iran or anything.


You live in the UK a lot of Muslims live their to not just Christians you really do like to just blame it all on one faith very single minded I must say.


A lot of Muslims yes, but their homophobia isn't as accepted as Christian homophobia because they are not the majority (and also because of bigotry towards them - another example of religion dividing people unnecessarily)


That is true their not the majority yet but the Muslim population is growing also. I am a proestant/methodist we are not liked in the UK but the UK christians they treat us poorly and countinue to do so. Not only has religion created violence which I will admit to it also created two seperate groups those of the original faith Catholic. And the one who went threw religious reform the Proestants which caused so much death wars ect. I research my faiths histrory their is plenty of bad and only small parts where deemed good.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:13 pm

Joker, please provide proof that religion has external force to do violence. Yeah no... There isn't.



Joker
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21 Apr 2012, 9:14 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah, so Henry VIII could divorce his old, useless wife and shag a nice young fertile woman instead... Brilliant religion you've got there :roll:


I do not see what Henry VIII has to do with Proestants he was not a proestant at all. I have not made personal attacks against you the least you could do it debate in a respecful manner.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:15 pm

Subotai wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah, so Henry VIII could divorce his old, useless wife and shag a nice young fertile woman instead... Brilliant religion you've got there :roll:


That's specifically the Church of England, protestants as a whole originated from Martin Luther.

For the record I'm not religious btw :wink:


Yeah, I'm probably being too anglo-centric - most where I live are Church of England



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21 Apr 2012, 9:16 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sure getting rid of religion might reduce homophobia but so could reforming religion.


Religious reform takes a long time, if possible, and frequently unpopular. It is probably even more difficult now that communication between adherents worldwide is so fast and accessible. The internet means old and/or stupid ideas take a long time do die


Not so the Proestants went threw a religious reform causing the Catholics to get angry about it those starting the thirty years war all becasue proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah... how exactly does that refute my point?


It does refute it becasue you think religious reform never happens when it fact it does.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:18 pm

Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sure getting rid of religion might reduce homophobia but so could reforming religion.


Religious reform takes a long time, if possible, and frequently unpopular. It is probably even more difficult now that communication between adherents worldwide is so fast and accessible. The internet means old and/or stupid ideas take a long time do die


Not so the Proestants went threw a religious reform causing the Catholics to get angry about it those starting the thirty years war all becasue proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah... how exactly does that refute my point?


It does refute it becasue you think religious reform never happens when it fact it does.


I did not say that. I said it takes a long time and is frequently unpopular. The 30 Years War is a perfect example of this


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21 Apr 2012, 9:18 pm

Joker wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah, so Henry VIII could divorce his old, useless wife and shag a nice young fertile woman instead... Brilliant religion you've got there :roll:


I do not see what Henry VIII has to do with Proestants he was not a proestant at all. I have not made personal attacks against you the least you could do it debate in a respecful manner.


How is that a personal attack? It's an attack on a religion. If you misunderstoof my "brilliant religion you've got there" then I apologise. It wasn't meant to mean you specifically. I meant in general. It's a figure of speech.

And tbh, if that counts as a personal attack, then you are guilty of the same. You accused me of being "single minded" without justification



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21 Apr 2012, 9:19 pm

Reptillian wrote:
Joker, please provide proof that religion has external force to do violence. Yeah no... There isn't.


Read about the Crusades where the Pope said it would not be a sin to murder during the war.
The Thirty Year wars ect I am not going to spoon feed you the answers.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:22 pm

AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
AdamAdam wrote:
Joker wrote:
proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah, so Henry VIII could divorce his old, useless wife and shag a nice young fertile woman instead... Brilliant religion you've got there :roll:


I do not see what Henry VIII has to do with Proestants he was not a proestant at all. I have not made personal attacks against you the least you could do it debate in a respecful manner.


How is that a personal attack? It's an attack on a religion. If you misunderstoof my "brilliant religion you've got there" then I apologise. It wasn't meant to mean you specifically. I meant in general. It's a figure of speech.

And tbh, if that counts as a personal attack, then you are guilty of the same. You accused me of being "single minded" without justification


Then I apologoize I do not want to cause a heated debate and yes I am just as guilty so again I am sorry and yes I misunderstood your "brilliant religion you got there" statement I never attack those for being non thiests wish I could be shown the same respect.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:22 pm

Joker wrote:
Reptillian wrote:
Joker, please provide proof that religion has external force to do violence. Yeah no... There isn't.


Read about the Crusades where the Pope said it would not be a sin to murder during the war.
The Thirty Year wars ect I am not going to spoon feed you the answers.


You provided how people go by ideals... But you still haven't provided proof that religion has external forces to do damages. I can use the Stalin and Vladimir era to show that atheism caused damages using your logic.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:23 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Joker wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
Sure getting rid of religion might reduce homophobia but so could reforming religion.


Religious reform takes a long time, if possible, and frequently unpopular. It is probably even more difficult now that communication between adherents worldwide is so fast and accessible. The internet means old and/or stupid ideas take a long time do die


Not so the Proestants went threw a religious reform causing the Catholics to get angry about it those starting the thirty years war all becasue proestants did not bow down to the vatican or the pope.


Yeah... how exactly does that refute my point?


It does refute it becasue you think religious reform never happens when it fact it does.


I did not say that. I said it takes a long time and is frequently unpopular. The 30 Years War is a perfect example of this


Oh then I am sorry for posting a false claim yes the thirty years war started because the proestants broke away from the vatican and the tyrant of a pople at the time.

Catholics view me and you the same btw.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:28 pm

Thankfully caring what Catholics think is not high on my list of priorities


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21 Apr 2012, 9:31 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Thankfully caring what Catholics think is not high on my list of priorities


Me either :wink:



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21 Apr 2012, 9:32 pm

Wrt protestant bad behavior, the Southern Baptists of the US are just as bad as the Catholics wrt. homophobia and sexism and are arguably worse wrt. denying science and social charity.



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21 Apr 2012, 9:34 pm

LKL wrote:
Wrt protestant bad behavior, the Southern Baptists of the US are just as bad as the Catholics wrt. homophobia and sexism and are arguably worse wrt. denying science and social charity.


Some of the most repulsive things I have read from religious people are from these "independent" baptist Christians who refer to Catholicism and other organizations as "Churchianity"


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21 Apr 2012, 9:37 pm

Vigilans wrote:
LKL wrote:
Wrt protestant bad behavior, the Southern Baptists of the US are just as bad as the Catholics wrt. homophobia and sexism and are arguably worse wrt. denying science and social charity.


Some of the most repulsive things I have read from religious people are from these "independent" baptist Christians who refer to Catholicism and other organizations as "Churchianity"


I am not a babtist I am methodist the babtist are just as bad as the catholics which is why the methodist church is becoming more popular with the youth in america. The methodist church openly has gay and lesibian preachers ect we also avdocate same sex marriage and support aboriton womens rights ect. The older memmebers dont do those things but my genderation at the church does.